Using the Universal grid charger - Page 68 - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum
 
Go Back   Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum > 1st Generation Honda Insight Forum > Modifications and Technical Issues

Please Visit our Site Sponsors Page
Insightcentral.net is the premier Honda Insight Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
» Wheel & Tire Center

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-23-2013, 01:48 PM   #671 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Campo, Ca.
Posts: 4,097
Default

From using and observing the OBDIIC&C gauge that is about right. Of course it all depends what model of the BCM you have.
(My opinion)

Willie
__________________
01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1- (01/2003)
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301,520 miles
Use: 320,000 mi. @ 57.8 LMPG


http://www.insightcentral.net/forums...d-insight.html
http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/User:...ies_Red_Rocket
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/12630


07 FIT "S"
1998 Ford F-150, NASCAR "Limited Edition"
(3K made, The prototype one?)
Willie Williford is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-23-2013, 03:01 PM   #672 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 268
Default

FWIW it is a 2006 CVT
Hitech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 03:31 PM   #673 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Campo, Ca.
Posts: 4,097
Default

Get a OBDIIC&C gauge and you will better understand what is happening with the IAM system, and visually see how far off the SOC gauge is.
It is worth every penny spent.
(And I'm a "frugel" person, not cheap.)

Willie
__________________
01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1- (01/2003)
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301,520 miles
Use: 320,000 mi. @ 57.8 LMPG


http://www.insightcentral.net/forums...d-insight.html
http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/User:...ies_Red_Rocket
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/12630


07 FIT "S"
1998 Ford F-150, NASCAR "Limited Edition"
(3K made, The prototype one?)
Willie Williford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 12:02 PM   #674 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Madison
Posts: 76
Default Feb conditioning

I did a one-cycle conditioning for Feb and it looks pretty good. I did need to put the MaxChg_mAH up to 7500 (8000 would probably be safer), and the SlopeDifMax up to 55 (though 45 or 50 might have worked). And I found that setting the Tech variable, DischSmpFac, to 10 achieved a reasonable result (ended up with Sample Target value of 8...whatever that means). I also set SampleTime to 60. It doesn't look like there were any cell drops down to 136.9V, so looks good there.

Nothing really out of the ordinary that I can see...

B
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Graph_all.pdf (26.9 KB, 39 views)
File Type: pdf Cycles.pdf (26.9 KB, 11 views)
File Type: pdf Vars.pdf (36.0 KB, 4 views)
File Type: pdf Graph_Discharge_all.pdf (27.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: pdf Graph_Discharge_detail.pdf (24.1 KB, 7 views)
bluesight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 12:23 PM   #675 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mike Dabrowski 2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NE CT
Posts: 3,844
Default

Sample Target value :
1-bit drop within DischgSmplTarget number of samples will stop for R2

8 is a pretty big number, on most packs with the default value for DischSmpFac of 30 , the sample / bit are 1-2, allowing a faster voltage drop at the end, and therefore a deeper discharge.
This means that your discharge would stop short of a cell drop off, and would not give a deep discharge to the weakest cell, probably the opposite of what would give the best discharge depth.
Lowering the DischSmpFac gives less depth of discharge. Raising it will increase the dept of discharge, but we lock that sample to 1 if the math generates a number less than 1.
sample target of 1, will stop with R2 if we see .2V (1 bit)/ 5 second sample
Sample target of 8 will stop with R2 if we see .2V (1 bit)/ 40 seconds (8*5seconds)
Mike Dabrowski 2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 01:06 PM   #676 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Madison
Posts: 76
Default

Looks like I have been going the wrong way on DischSmpFac. I have been trying to reduce it, where I should be increasing it. Next time, I will try a higher value to see what happens. Maybe go to 40 from the default of 30?

Thanks for the important correction there....

B

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dabrowski 2000 View Post
Sample Target value :
1-bit drop within DischgSmplTarget number of samples will stop for R2

8 is a pretty big number, on most packs with the default value for DischSmpFac of 30 , the sample / bit are 1-2, allowing a faster voltage drop at the end, and therefore a deeper discharge.
This means that your discharge would stop short of a cell drop off, and would not give a deep discharge to the weakest cell, probably the opposite of what would give the best discharge depth.
Lowering the DischSmpFac gives less depth of discharge. Raising it will increase the dept of discharge, but we lock that sample to 1 if the math generates a number less than 1.
sample target of 1, will stop with R2 if we see .2V (1 bit)/ 5 second sample
Sample target of 8 will stop with R2 if we see .2V (1 bit)/ 40 seconds (8*5seconds)
bluesight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 11:42 PM   #677 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 15
Default

Mike,

Are the "sample target" and "sample timer" that are visible on the charge graphs page these values we can be watching when discharging, based on your definition of the "sample target" value you just posted, and the "sample timer" that perhaps counts off whether the change has been met or not?

Can you re-clarify the relationship between the DischSmpFac and the DischgSmplTarget? Perhaps your post directly below explains it, but the more I read it, I get more confused. Maybe I'm missing the units of measure, and that would help me remember them.

I've wondered how to get more from the data that you have chosen to display on the graph tab, and these values have been a bit mysterious.

John
cactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 09:39 AM   #678 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mike Dabrowski 2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NE CT
Posts: 3,844
Default

yes those are the values displayed during discharge.
I posted the math we use in this post
Using the Universal grid charger
which I realize is pretty cryptic if one does not understand C, and it is even difficult for me to read, as we worked out the algorithm a long time ago, and my brain has been filled with too many other things. To the best of my reconnection it works like this:

The slope is determined based on how many samples there are between a bit change, each sample is 5 seconds, so during the initial change from charge to discharge, the voltage drops fast, so there is sometimes several bit changes per sample. As the discharge gets into the flatter part of the discharge, we look for the max samples/bit change, or the slowest rate of change, you can tell when the discharge minimum rate of change has been determined, as we will hear a short blip on the speaker on each sample. this minimum rate of change establishes our slope baseline, and at that point the number of samples/bit can be in the 5-60 range, depending on the battery condition. This number is divided by the DischSmpFac* to determine the DischgSmplTarget value you see in the discharge data field.
If the division yields a number less than 1, we force the value to one.
The sample timer, is the count of how many samples have transpired since the last bit change.
say the DischgSmplTarget is 3, if the count does not reach 3 before the next bit change (voltage is falling fast), we set R2 and stop the discharge.

The main concern we had was that we did not want to miss the slope fall off at the end of the discharge under any condition, so there are several end of discharge detection systems at play. The ideal and most accurate method is for a human to be watching the datalog graph, and since we are much better than our low tech algorithms at looking at trends, we can easily pick out a cell drop out and the rapid rate of change increase at the end of the discharge when the pack starts dropping out.
This is why we have the tech edit discharge detection test mode where you can disable all but the MinDiscVolts limit for the end of discharge, and you become the limit detection.
If a smarter programmer were doing the math, I expect that the code could be much better, but what we have works,avoids cell reversals and one can always disable the detection and DIY for the best and most accurate end of discharge detection.
If the charger was controlled by the labview program, where there is a vast library of statistical analysis possibilities, as well as the whole history of the discharge in the charge memory, I expect that we could do a much better job of the discharge detection, but as we have found, only a couple of brave souls have ventured into even using the Labview datalogger. The controls for the charger from labview is in place,we can start stop the charger from the PC, but the passing of the detection to the PC is not in place, as my weak math skills for statistical analysis are still not up for the task, even though my labview is equipped with the full advanced analysis software, I just dont know enough to take advantage of what it could do.
Of course if any of you users of the system feel that they can contribute to improving this, I am always open to advice and would welcome it.
Mike Dabrowski 2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 03:07 PM   #679 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
ericbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 628
Default

Just a quick note for people who are using the datalogger and have a Windows XP machine that already has a native RS232 port.

Be sure that you use the correct kind of RS232 cable.

I spent several hours trying to troubleshoot data errors I was getting.
Turns out I had the wrong kind of RS232 cable. There are many "flavors": null modem, etc.
__________________
EV Powers: A Green-vehicle workshop in Madison, WI
Eric@EVPowers.com
608-729-4082
http://www.EVPowers.com
ericbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 02:59 PM   #680 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 15
Default

Mike,

If I wanted to discharge the pack more slowly, to creep up on the cell drop-outs or rapid slope change, can I simply pull one of the bulbs from the shop light discharger, or is there something I'm missing in that logic?

If there is indeed a heavy voltage drop under loading, would this help get a deeper discharge on a weak pack?

John
cactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:11 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2