Radioisotope heater as block heater?

[Aaron Cake]

Does anyone know where I may purchase a small radioisotope heater in the 150W - 250W range? That's right in the power output of a small block heater. Unlike a block heater though, a radioisotope heater would always be working, without increasing my electric bill or causing me to have to run an extension cord at the office.

I've found several for sale in the 1W - 10W range, no prices, and from fairly obscure companies which leads me to believe that radioisotope heaters in higher wattage ranges just aren't available to the public. Which would make sense I guess, because Plutonium dioxide is generally the source used and I guess the NRC and other authorities probably want to keep the amount sold to the public to a minimum... but hell, I know there are several here that may work in industries that use radioisotope heaters so I figure it's worth asking...

But just imagine...Coolant always at almost operating temperature, with no external power input, anytime you want, regardless of where you park.

[retepsnikrep]

OK I'll bite Is this a serious question

We all know the reasons why they won't be available to the gp. I assume you could open it up grind it down and make a very dirty bomb quite easily. I'm surprised you can buy a 10w one.

I think the FBI/nuclear authorities would be all over you if you attempted or managed to acquire one even for innocent purposes.

[Aaron Cake]

Yes, this is indeed a serious question that came from some mental musings as I was amusing myself by putting various materials between my Geiger counter and some Sr-90 to see how well they blocked beta rays.

There are many radioactive materials available to the general public, very easily and from many sources. Plus one can always visit the tailings area of a local uranium mine with a Geiger counter and walk away with as much uranium ore as one can carry, which is fairly easily processed to obtain uranium metal. That is, if you just don't want to mail order it. I'll leave it at that. Google if you are curious.

But yes, plutonium dioxide as used in many radioisotope heaters is fairly poisonous, and with a heat output of only about 0.5W per gram, I'm assuming that heaters in the 150-250W range aren't available to the general public.

Still, as I said, worth asking.

[Cobb]

I think in all seriousness size is the main limitation. If you do not mind a 10lb brick to plumb inline to your coolant system, then its possible. The other down side is the fact it would trigger alarms at truck scales and air ports. You know many truck scales scan for beta radiation.

I too thought this was an interesting topic. I learned upon researching it that they use this for heating space crafts and in the former YUGO the use it as space heaters. Imagine a "solid state" space heater so to speak that did not use any power or fuel?

Having said that, what ever happened to the idea of adding a thermos like the prius uses or some solar water heater mounted under the hood in lexan or behind the windshield?

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[AbCaRed00]

Pu-238 is not bomb material like other isotopes and the 'guilt by association' think rears it's head again.
The isotope of Plutonium generates predictable heat over many years from low penetration alpha-particles . i.e. Half-life 88 yrs vs 22,000yr like an other Plutonium.

If it could be bought, [and fwiw there's only 0.2Kg of the stuff produced in the USA yearly, for detectors and satellites and the like], you will need about one and a half kilograms for your project. [based on output of 140W/ .8kg used in one working generator]
Russia's the world source that the USA gets its supply from for it's NASA space projects.

[Cobb]

America isn't too rich in natural resources, minerals and stuff. We get almost all of our special metals for black projects, defense, etc from other countries. Sometimes we get the materials to build the weapons to use on said country. We make up fictional companies tobuythe stuff.

Yeah, you can do a lot with used fire alarms and you can buy those in bulk for next to nothing or FREE from abandoned buildings.

I am disappointed our attempts at nuclear powered air crafts didn't work out. Imagine a vehicle that can sail the skys like our subs cruse the water. Only stopping to refuel the meat puppets inside.

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[Aaron Cake]

I've definitely thought of the thermos bottle but just never put much more than thought into it. Certainly that is the easiest approach and will do of course the same job. I hear that the bottle in the Prius will hold temp for about days. Now whether that is the case at -25C, I would assume not.

Ultimately I'd rather not handle the material directly to build a radioisotope heater, for many reasons. Now saying that, it is fairly obvious that Plutonium-238 is not nearly as available as other materials, which means that even it it were easily possible, the price would be...dramatic. So this basically kills the idea right there. An alpha emitter is basically safe once behind, well, almost any shield. Alpha is typically stopped by such hardcore shields as a piece of paper.

Smoke detectors use Americium-241, which decays into Neptunium-237, from which you can produce Plutonium-238 by blasting it from any common neutron source. But that would require a lot of old smoke detectors. A lot. Maybe about 100 million of them, assuming each one contains about 1uC of Am-241 (rough guess without doing any math). Start doing this stuff and that's where the danger lies.

Sounding like this isn't a realistic option. Go figure.

[TheForce]

This guy built a reactor.
Doesn't look that hard.

KID BUILDS REACTOR!! the nuclear boyscout(1/2) - YouTube

KID BUILDS REACTOR!! the nuclear boyscout(1/2) - YouTube

[Cobb]

I think the coolant thermos is a clever idea, however not sure how much it adds to long distance vs short distance driving. I am sure if you are a daily driver that it offers comforts such as nearly instant heat vs waiting for a few miles and more heat during engine stop.

I wanted to buy one from the boneyard and was quoted 250 bucks. I seriously doubt those are in such a demand that they go for that price. I had toyed about adding a home made one, but was told I needed the special valve they use that break contact with the coolant so the heat wont exit the bottle while parked.

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[Aaron Cake]

Originally Posted by TheForce

This guy built a reactor.
Doesn't look that hard.

He didn't really build a reactor, what he accomplished was making a radioactive mess. I've read the story several times over the last few years and come to the conclusion that while he was a very resourceful, fairly bright and very dedicated, he was not intelligent. He had a very "selective understanding" of what he was doing. And it's idiots like him that ruin stuff for the rest of us. Seems to me that he was caught once again a few years ago stealing smoke detectors.

Originally Posted by Cobb

I think the coolant thermos is a clever idea, however not sure how much it adds to long distance vs short distance driving. I am sure if you are a daily driver that it offers comforts such as nearly instant heat vs waiting for a few miles and more heat during engine stop.
I wanted to buy one from the boneyard and was quoted 250 bucks. I seriously doubt those are in such a demand that they go for that price. I had toyed about adding a home made one, but was told I needed the special valve they use that break contact with the coolant so the heat wont exit the bottle while parked.

$250 isn't too bad, really. I'm sure if you offered $150 they'd take it and it probably includes the valves. My main concern is avoiding the lengthy warmup process every time the car sits for a few hours. It takes forever when the temperature is around 0 for the car to warm up, so this time of year my city mileage drops from 65-70 MPG to mid to high 40s, partially because the car is never warmed up. And of course air density and such, but that's not something I can control. Keeping the coolant warm would be part of the solution. Maybe once I'm done restoring my Cosmo I'll revisit the thermos.

Other crazy ideas include a small propane heater.