Hi all, I am 2nd owner of a 2002 Insight with 125K miles. I've had the car for about 6 months with no issues. The car has been extremely well maintained during its life by the previous owner.
I did something rather silly today, I've been in the habit of downshifting to stop, that seems like the best way to get charge to the battery for the longest time. Today, I performed a rather violent downshift into second while traveling fairly fast. Dumb I know. Immediately I got a IMA and check engine light. Charge and assist stopped working and now starter motor is what starts car instead of IMA.
Later that day I used my Ultragauge to diagnose and saw P1565 error. Resetting the error temporarily turned the lights off and the car started with IMA but lights immediately came back on.
Reading on this forum, it appears to be a commutation error, but any ideas why this would occur when the downshift happened. Any suggestions on how to repair?
I got a P1565 when the top right pin in the far left connector on the MCM pushed out just a bit. Pushed it back in and reconnected it and no more code. If you have been working back there it might be worth a look.
Good luck with it.
How fast were you going in third when you shifted to second?
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01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1- (01/2003)
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301,520 miles
Use: 320,000 mi. @ 57.8 LMPG
The ultragauge cannot clear IMA codes correctly, so unless you have my OBDIIC&C or a Honda Tool you will need to pull the 12v battery + cable for a minute or the fuse under the dash/hood to clear the code properly from the MCM. Try that first.
The commutation error is quite rare but has been known to be caused by bad connections at the plug on the top of the IMA motor and in the rear of the car.
As your fault scenario is apparently connected with a specific event, eg downshift and perhaps over reving the engine that may have been detected by the MCM as motor over speed and or commutation fault. If the fault comes back immediately after clearing it properly then you will have to go through the diagnosis steps in the manual.
If that doesn't reveal any faults it's a very remote possibility you might have physically damaged a sensor in situ. I have seen sensors with the tops erroded by the commutation plate making contact with them. I did post some pics of that in anolther thread. Search for the fault code number on here to see what others have said. Unfortunately visually checking or replacing the commutation sensors is a gearbox out job.
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OBDIIC&C $50 inc software, pcb, switch and obdii plug.
IMAC&C HCH1 $50 inc software and pcb.
Last edited by retepsnikrep; 12-19-2012 at 01:08 AM.
Check the ground straps perhaps as well as if the motor flexes heavily from bad rear engine mount on sudden deceleration it could have broken a strap, pulled the strap out of loose contact if already broken, or maybe tugged on a harness.
Breakage of a ground wire on a quick slowing downshift to 2nd coming to a stop happened to me last year when I noticed a sound like a guitar string breaking in the engine bay upon hard braking with the downshift.,, but no code was thrown. The ground straps being broken can cause difficulties is reported.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I did try the battery disconnect for several minutes, but when reconnected and started the trouble lights came right back on as before. I looked for ground strap breakages on the 4 ground straps and they looked ok. So it sounds like I need to go through the diagnosis steps in the manual. I'm not sure which manual you mean though, can you point me to that? Also, can I trust my Ultragauge to report the correct error code?
Regarding the question on downshift speed, I was probably going 45 or so in 5th when I downshifted into second, again not a smart thing to do.
Thanks guys, I obviously need to get this fixed, hopefully it won't need to go to to the Honda dealer!
/// So it sounds like I need to go through the diagnosis steps in the manual. I'm not sure which manual you mean though, can you point me to that? ///
There's a repair manual as pdf compressed in zip files downloadable via a sticky post at the head of the forum along with lots of other great info. There is a pdf google doc from the advanced diagnostics specifically for DTC P1565 (42): Motor Commutation Signal Problem in the Advanced Diagnostics section.
Also obdii codes with links to posts etc can be searched via a google doc spread sheet.
Changing down from 45 into second will not over rev the engine as you can do 70+mph in second before the car hits the rev limiter. However perhaps your change was so rough it jerked the transmission/ motor in some way.
As stated you will have to do the diagnosis steps now, good luck.
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OBDIIC&C $50 inc software, pcb, switch and obdii plug.
IMAC&C HCH1 $50 inc software and pcb.
I am looking at the IMA_SWSYSTEM.pdf file that has the diagnostic procedure. It says to remove the motor commutation sensor connector (10P), however I cannot find anywhere where it actually shows where that connector is. Is it accessible from the engine compartment, if so where is it exactly?
I suspect that connector more than anything at this point since that is near the parts that moved the most when the downshift occurred.
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P1565 Error IMA light
I did post some pics of that in anolther thread. Search for the fault code number on here to see what others have said. Unfortunately visually checking or replacing the commutation sensors is a gearbox out job.
