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Turbo, w/a intercooling, alternator and MoTeC management

99K views 643 replies 47 participants last post by  retepsnikrep 
#1 ·
Hello everyone,

I am about three-quarters of the way through turbocharging, water/air intercooling, fitting an alternator and running MoTeC management (control of fuel, ignition, boost, water/air pump speed and EGR). Also have built a new airbox and a new exhaust with adjustable flow valve.

It's been a while since I have looked here (and my original membership lapsed) and I have a question.

Has anyone established a realistic, long term max power output when running the stock engine internals? When the sump was off to install the oil drain for the turbo I was surprised how skinny the conrods are...
 
#2 ·
250,000+ miles before a MAJOR PROBLEM.
How much boost?

Good luck.
Willie
 
#3 ·
Fitting an alternator.
Julian.

Where are you located?

Why are you fitting an alternator?
Have you removed the IMA motor and or system?
The IMA as a generator is much more efficient than a bolt on alternator.

Please post detailed pics of your setup. We are all keen to look at it.

Ref your original question they don't seem to go bang very often.
Ball park I would say a 25% power/torque increase from the motor should be OK.

Clean the vtec oil screen, use top quality oil and a higher flow oil filter.
There have been a few camshaft failures.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I am located in Australia.

I am fitting an alternator because I want to eventually run a higher voltage battery pack and short-term boost the kW output of the electric motor. In the mean time, I want to be able to run the car as a non-hybrid.

Where is the VTEC oil screen?
 
#6 · (Edited)
Julian

There are several threads here about the vtec screen getting blocked, have a search about.
It's at the front left side of the engine near the rocker cover.

You may have already read my various threads about higher voltage packs, increased IMA power output etc etc If not you have days of reading ahead. ;)

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...al-issues/16206-inside-g1-mdm-more-power.html

This will get you started.

I've done quite a bit of work and testing again recently so check the latest posts and my Youtube channel as well.

Running the car as a non hybrid and even with the battery removed does not require an alternator, the DC_DC converter ima generator still works with certain caveats.
Again searching about will help with this.
Several people run without a hybrid mode but no one has needed to fit an alternator.

Look forward to seeing your project.

PS the IMA motor will give/take about ~20kw max for short periods without too much problem.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Thanks - I have the M400 ECU and MoTeC CDL3 dash already.

I am fitting an alternator so I don't have to worry about matching HV battery voltage to the DC/DC converter (ie when running higher than std HV voltage), and to allow more room for batteries in std box. (12V battery also going in the back.)

Thanks re VTEC screen.

I won't get to the hybrid side of things for some time - priority is to first get the car running as non-hybrid turbo with new dash and engine management.

Re pictures - most of the bits are at the powdercoaters at the moment - new airbox, new intercooler-throttle body duct, intercooler water pump bracket, mount for water/air heat exchanger, etc.
 
#8 ·
Alternator:




Milling engine mount for alternator mount clearance:



Mock-up of part of mount with guidance pulleys



Alternator mount after blasting but before powdercoating:

 
#9 ·
Testing max DC/DC converter current draw (it peaked at 64 amps WITHOUT electric power steer, brake lights or rad fan on):



MoTeC dash being tested:

 
#10 ·
Turbo exhaust adaptor:



Turbo with adaptor:



Turbo heat shield:

 
#11 ·
Turbo oil supply and pressure sensor:



Sump oil temperature sensor:

 
#12 ·
I was going to come in here and flame you for putting an alternator into the car.

However, after seeing your work, color me impressed. Very nice.

Still wouldn't bother with the alternator though lol.
 
#21 ·
Pretty sure he knows what he is doing, he is Julian Edgar from autospeed.com

He used to post here before. :)
 
#13 ·
Front-mount water heat exchanger:



Underbonnet heat exchanger and reservoir prior to bead blasting:



Testing actual water flow of mock-up system at different pump voltages:

 
#14 · (Edited)
Wait - you plan on replacing the stock ECM?

You'll lose lean burn if a MT, and hybrid functionality...

Unless you've got some tricks up your sleeve that we would all love to hear about. ;)
 
#15 ·
Wait - you plan replacing the stock ECM?

You'll lose lean burn and hybrid functionality...

Unless you've got some tricks up your sleeve that we would all love to hear about. ;)
I can have far more lean burn than standard - it's a programmable management system so I can dial in whatever AFR I want. Also relatively easy to have driver switchable modes - economy mode, power mode, etc.

Hybrid functionality is a subsequent step, but with a new electric motor controller and battery management system, I see it as being achievable (but probably without auto stop).
 
#17 ·
With programmable management I am not reliant on what the factory does with the standard system. I'll have complete control over AFR, ignition timing, EGR (and also turbo boost and intercooler water pump speed). That gives me a flexibility completely impossible with the standard engine management.

The later step will be to do the same with the electric motor - so again I can run whatever battery voltage, whatever charge and recharge strategies (inc plug-in capability) that I want, within of course the limitation of not killing the electric motor.

I've used an interceptor with the standard engine management to change lean-burn behaviour ie having it occur more often, and with different EGR strategies, but programmable management should be vastly better in terms of what is achievable.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I have my OT sensor mounted the same as yours. Most temperatures I've seen with moderate boost activation is 182F.(83.5C?)
Suggestion;
Don't over oil your turbo. I think the Insight has about a 50 psi rating.

HTH
Willie
After looking at the picture closely, mine is mounted into the drain plug.
Pretty close to the same level of the oil as yours I think.
 
#19 ·
What turbo are you using? If it is too big it will be slow to spool up.

I admire your fabrication skills.

Sam
 
#20 ·
What turbo are you using? If it is too big it will be slow to spool up.
Mitsubishi TF035HM-13T-6.

I've previously turbocharged an NHW10 Prius and I got the turbo match right in that application, but yes, with the Insight, it will be interesting - especially without the electric motor operating.

I admire your fabrication skills.
Thank you
 
#22 ·
I didn't recognize the name.... :redface:

:Bowdown:
 
#24 ·
LOL, I remember because of his AF ratio writeups on the Insight as well as a few others.
 
#23 ·
Nice pics are you going to be selling a kit ;)

FWIW The DC-DC Converter will take about 215-220v before shutting down until the voltage falls back below that level.
 
#25 · (Edited)
New airbox - takes huge cylindrical filter:



Front heat exchanger mounted:



Turbo to intercooler plumbing, and intercooler to throttle body plumbing:



Alternator and two pulleys on bracket (more or less in the correct orientation):



Top two bolts: engine mount. Bottom near (removable) mount: sump stud. Far left mount: exhaust brace bolt. Extra visible lug at left: mount for new exhaust brace.
 
#152 ·
What size was the heat exchanger that you mounted? Did you have to cut the inside of the bumper or the grille at all for it to fit? Do you have a link to it?

What do you think of the heat exchanger used in the following Turbo insight setup. What sort of temperature drop are you seeing? Do you think having one that big has any appreciable benefit considering the cost would be to cut the bumper more and weight? I know the following one required cutting the inside of the bumper a little bit to fit:
Honda Insight: Project Turbo Insight - Page 3 - Houston-Imports.com



Front heat exchanger mounted:

 
#26 ·
Filter:

 
#27 ·
Alternator fitted - top view:



Bottom/side view:

 
#28 ·
Have to admit, looks great. :p

What's the output on that beast?
 
#29 ·
#31 ·
Another view of alternator bracket:

 
#32 ·
Oil temp sensor, inner view:



Turbo oil return, inner view:



Blow off (recirculation) valve return on new airbox:

 
#234 ·
oil return fittings

Hi Julian,

With regards to your oil pan fittings, could you recommend some fittings? Looks like you went with a bolt on an10 (id rather not weld to magnesium either :)), but I saw that your oil return and temp sensor fittings have a washer on either side, which I like, but the bolt on's I've found don't include a washer. I could just add a washer, but just thought I'd ask where you source your fittings?

Looks like an amazing setup like everyone has said so far.

Cheers,
Greg
 
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