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Old 03-04-2017, 02:21 AM   #601 (permalink)
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The LMPG on the LRR today finally dropped back to 58.0 MPG from 58.2.
Winter weather and winter blend fuel finally took it's toll.

Got to have a good summer run to get it back.

Willie
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01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1-(01/2003)@65K miles. RIP 334K
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301K miles
Use: 399,000 mi. @ 58.2 LMPG.



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Old 03-05-2017, 07:51 PM   #602 (permalink)
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What a day. A day of "Brain Fart", and bad "Assumption",
To seek a cure, I added an extra 120 miles on my trip to Scotts and back. (Normally around 352 miles.)

During that time, I did a lot of experimentation with driving styles, speed vs rpm, drafting, and a lot of running with and without IMA, via the CALPOD switch.

Also included on the way back I did a "draft" at about a 3 car length behind a Tesla S on the freeway for about 20 miles. at a constant 75 MPH. It seems he was on "cruise control".
Most of the time my FCD was between 75-100 MPG. with lots of "lean burn". It could have been better if I had been closer, but I was doing it safely.

The "Mountain Springs Grade" was still a killer on my average MPG. No way to figure a way around that obstacle, and by the time I got home, I had averaged 67.7 MPG for 472 miles per the FCD. Before the grade I was at 70.1 MPG with winter weather and winter fuel blend.
I firmly believe the smaller mirrors also helped.

With all the thinking and analyzing, by the time I got back home, I felt great. My mind and thinking seems clearer and I feel a lot better.
Better medicine than going to a doctor.

Conclusion:
Use your driving for therapy, not punishment.

Enjoy
Willie
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01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1-(01/2003)@65K miles. RIP 334K
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301K miles
Use: 399,000 mi. @ 58.2 LMPG.



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Old 03-06-2017, 03:43 AM   #603 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Williford View Post
What a day. A day of "Brain Fart", and bad "Assumption",
To seek a cure, I added an extra 120 miles on my trip to Scotts and back. (Normally around 352 miles.)

During that time, I did a lot of experimentation with driving styles, speed vs rpm, drafting, and a lot of running with and without IMA, via the CALPOD switch.

Also included on the way back I did a "draft" at about a 3 car length behind a Tesla S on the freeway for about 20 miles. at a constant 75 MPH. It seems he was on "cruise control".
Most of the time my FCD was between 75-100 MPG. with lots of "lean burn". It could have been better if I had been closer, but I was doing it safely.

The "Mountain Springs Grade" was still a killer on my average MPG. No way to figure a way around that obstacle, and by the time I got home, I had averaged 67.7 MPG for 472 miles per the FCD. Before the grade I was at 70.1 MPG with winter weather and winter fuel blend.
I firmly believe the smaller mirrors also helped.

With all the thinking and analyzing, by the time I got back home, I felt great. My mind and thinking seems clearer and I feel a lot better.
Better medicine than going to a doctor.

Conclusion:
Use your driving for therapy, not punishment.

Enjoy
Willie
Very nice Willie! It's great to hear the LRR is still running great.

People ask why I drive so much. 'Helps clear my mind' is an often response.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:15 PM   #604 (permalink)
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Here is the latest results of the "run"/lunch to Yuma and back.
Nothing outstanding, but I did have fun.The caravan running is sometimes a little confusing, because of others speed and traffic, road conditions, etc.

The trip there did yield a good 70.2 MPG, Running with the flow of traffic.
Weather was very warm, probably still winter blend in the fuel.

Coming back the weather was hot, so the A/C was used a lot to keep the temp. of the IMA battery close to ambient (95F)......Battery temp. 107F.

The "Mountain Springs Grade" on I-8 was still the deterrent for MPG average.

I let the LRR "have her way" up the grade, so when I got home the LMPG for the trip was back down to 59.2 MPG............Total miles=258.

4 pounds of boost, on and off, and a little "assist" on and off was utilized up the grade, max. speed per my Garmin showed 88 MPH up the grade. I drained the battery down to around 22% during the climb. Once home the IMA battery was again back to "full".

Again, thanks to EVERYONE who showed up for the meet.

Willie
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01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1-(01/2003)@65K miles. RIP 334K
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301K miles
Use: 399,000 mi. @ 58.2 LMPG.



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Old 03-20-2017, 05:29 PM   #605 (permalink)
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I am glad you had a good run, but why do you quote mileage to one decimal place when, with your extra injector, there's no way that the display is that accurate?

As someone pointed out in another thread, if you run an extra injector or increased fuel pressure, your dash display isn't right.

The alternative is that turbo boost is never used - can't have it both ways!
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- No IMA or DC/DC converter
- 80A alternator
- MoTeC M400 engine management & ADL3 dash
- Custom mapped fuel, ignition, EGR, lean burn, VTEC, boost, idle speed, a/c clutch and intercooler pump speed
- Turbo & water/air intercooler
- Bosch coils & Bosch ignition module
- NGK R7437-8 plugs
- Denso 23250-03010 injectors
- Custom airbox
- Custom active self-leveling air suspension
- Reshaped seats


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Old 03-20-2017, 05:52 PM   #606 (permalink)
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I know that. I have my own theory on that but I'm not going into details.(I have no absolute proof) When i do a tank to tank reading my exact fill up is close to the tank FCD.
What do you use?
ADD: The trip to Yuma was with NO BOOST USED.

Willie
__________________
01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1-(01/2003)@65K miles. RIP 334K
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301K miles
Use: 399,000 mi. @ 58.2 LMPG.



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Last edited by Willie Williford; 03-20-2017 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:21 PM   #607 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Williford View Post
I know that. I have my own theory on that but I'm not going into details.(I have no absolute proof) When i do a tank to tank reading my exact fill up is close to the tank FCD.
What do you use?
ADD: The trip to Yuma was with NO BOOST USED.

Willie
I've covered it in other threads but basically I calibrated my MoTeC dash against the fuel used from a separate fuel tank, with the tank weighed to calculate the mass of fuel used, and then that mass converted to a volume at a standard temperature. Distance measured by fast GPS. (Pics of set-up at bottom of post.)

If you compare your tank fill against your FCD, it needs to be more than 'close' - if you're quoting from the FCD to one decimal place it needs to be less than 1 per cent in error!

Look it's no big deal, it's just that quoting the FCD when you're running an extra injector doesn't make total sense.







__________________

- No IMA or DC/DC converter
- 80A alternator
- MoTeC M400 engine management & ADL3 dash
- Custom mapped fuel, ignition, EGR, lean burn, VTEC, boost, idle speed, a/c clutch and intercooler pump speed
- Turbo & water/air intercooler
- Bosch coils & Bosch ignition module
- NGK R7437-8 plugs
- Denso 23250-03010 injectors
- Custom airbox
- Custom active self-leveling air suspension
- Reshaped seats


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Old 03-20-2017, 07:02 PM   #608 (permalink)
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Default As a 1800 hour pilot with airshow experience(demo rides for Earthstar aircraft)..

I understand efficiency and appreciate it a LOT. (What I worked very hard to get from our Rotax and (already efficient) HKS engines..
IMHO, Willie, has the most (or absolutely ONE OF the most efficient cars at "normal, or highway speeds (I'd drive).

The "turbo normalizing" of aircraft (piston) engiones makes them much more fuel efficient as it raises (dramatically in some (especially FI) engines.
I think thats whats happening here, with willies car (engine).
The turbo is sized fpr efficiency, first, and power as a bonus.
That means a low rpm boost, or eliminating the negative PSI that the rest of us non turboed Insighters are using fuel to overcome.
Actually, that is almost a vacuum, when pistons are going down and valves open (why cylinder fills wo FInduction.

Exhaust gas and heat is "wasted energy" in a NA vehicle.
Willies can be driven at (Unbelievably great throttle control!) a turbo normalization boost. (Eliminating the wasted energy overcoming the vacuum and drag on air charging the cylinders)..

Julian, no doubt, you have a BAD ASS set up and car! However, the Insights inherent efficiency engineering, with a PROPERLY sized and selected turbo, (for that car hunting max efficiency), is the most efficient setup for these cars as delivered.

That said,
I bought a new cardone EGR valve (after reading your excellent info re them and your mpg increases tweaking them, electronically). It REALLY helped my mpg's by allowing LB much more easilyu and often.

Without your post, I'd have never spent that $200.00, probably...I had bought a $29 used ebay Acura one, and it worked, just "jerky" asnd inconsistant like the trashed Insight stock one. Tried the swap "prongs" rebuild, but ran worse re mpg's.
Julians tweaking lots more egr got me convinced I needed a EGR valve.
Cardones info convinced me it was a "lifetime repair".
Their info says they set the "brushes" gently curved, so negligable carbon wear each time it moves...!
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:10 PM   #609 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thillskier View Post
I understand efficiency and appreciate it a LOT. (What I worked very hard to get from our Rotax and (already efficient) HKS engines..
IMHO, Willie, has the most (or absolutely ONE OF the most efficient cars at "normal, or highway speeds (I'd drive).

The "turbo normalizing" of aircraft (piston) engiones makes them much more fuel efficient as it raises (dramatically in some (especially FI) engines.
I think thats whats happening here, with willies car (engine).
The turbo is sized fpr efficiency, first, and power as a bonus.
That means a low rpm boost, or eliminating the negative PSI that the rest of us non turboed Insighters are using fuel to overcome.
Actually, that is almost a vacuum, when pistons are going down and valves open (why cylinder fills wo FInduction.

Exhaust gas and heat is "wasted energy" in a NA vehicle.
Willies can be driven at (Unbelievably great throttle control!) a turbo normalization boost. (Eliminating the wasted energy overcoming the vacuum and drag on air charging the cylinders)..
There's no argument that a turbo can improve thermodynamic efficiency. However, that's not what is actually being discussed - because the factory FCD will take into account all of those improvements.

What it won't take into account is fuel being sprayed in that it has no way of measuring!

If the extra injector is ever used, the FCD will be wrong.
__________________

- No IMA or DC/DC converter
- 80A alternator
- MoTeC M400 engine management & ADL3 dash
- Custom mapped fuel, ignition, EGR, lean burn, VTEC, boost, idle speed, a/c clutch and intercooler pump speed
- Turbo & water/air intercooler
- Bosch coils & Bosch ignition module
- NGK R7437-8 plugs
- Denso 23250-03010 injectors
- Custom airbox
- Custom active self-leveling air suspension
- Reshaped seats


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Old 03-20-2017, 07:34 PM   #610 (permalink)
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Like I said before. I know that, but that is what all G1 insighters have for gauging.


Willie
__________________
01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1-(01/2003)@65K miles. RIP 334K
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301K miles
Use: 399,000 mi. @ 58.2 LMPG.



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