EGR valve cleaning, instructions please

[brpeterson]

After reading all of the info on the egr-related hesitation issues, I have decided to clean mine. I can't find any info on exactly how to do this, and exactly where the egr is located. Everyone says that it is so easy, but I took of the engine cover and there are a whole bunch of wires, parts and plumbing near the intake on the drivers side. Does anybody have photos, links, or detailed advice? Thanks.

[Insightful Trekker]

The complete procedure is outlined in this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=653&start=0

The 5th post in the thread.

But unless you have an _abnormal_ degree of jerking, hesitation, bucking then I doubt it will fix the problem.
The Insight by design has a slight amount especially noticeable under lean burn conditions.
AND since there are multiple overlapping potential sources for this type of symptom I'd recommend investing
in some professional diagnosis before throwing an EGR "fix" at the car.

HTH! :)

Edit: Fixed broken link

[kapps]

We just had Honda replace our EGR valve under warrenty and it makes a huge difference. Acceleration is better and no more herky jerky. Our Insight has been getting slowly worse since it has had 20 or 30k miles. Now with 62k, it was getting pretty bad and Honda agreed. Trekker, thanks for the link, next time this happens, the warrenty will be up and we'll be cleaning it ourselves.

[brpeterson]

All that I could find out of that post was some more information about the problem(s) caused clogged-dirty egr valves and plumbing. What does the egr valve look like? Where exaclty is it located? What two bolts need to be removed? I see a tall upright cylinder shape peice near the intake, it has two nuts and a grey wire harness on top. I dont see any input plumbing, which I expect would be there retunrning the exhaust gases, but that seems to be about the correct location. Please help!

[Insightful Trekker]

Originally Posted by brpeterson

<snip>

What does the egr valve look like? Where exaclty is it located? What two bolts need to be removed? I see a tall upright cylinder shape peice near the intake, it has two nuts and a grey wire harness on top. I dont see any input plumbing, which I expect would be there retunrning the exhaust gases, but that seems to be about the correct location. Please help!

Your really gonna try doing this the hard way?, OK. Your description should be correct for the valve, but its the plumbing that needs to be cleaned. A much more complex task. Yes you do have _limited_ access to one end of the plumbing but it is insufficient to do what is needed. All the chemical cleaners simply forced into this hole as reported in these groups have only had _very_ temporary results.

If your gonna try and become an Insight mechanic then you'll need the textbook. The Honda factory manual is best pg. 9-2 gives the exploded diagram for the EGR & Intake system.

Based on the limits of communication via the written word I'd rather not get you in deeper than your able to handle. Cleaning the EGR plumbing is not a novice task on the Insight.

IF your EGR valve has NOT been replaced it _MAY_ be the sole cause of your symptoms based on numerous postings here. You will need a _NEW_ replacement valve. It is a very basic task and you will remove all doubt of which part you are replacing with a new one in hand.

HTH!

[brpeterson]

I bought the car used, I dont know if the valve has been replaced or cleaned. So, as I stated earlier, I would like to try cleaning it. If that does not work, I will move on. As someone else on these boards said, why not first try the easiest and/or cheapest option in a list of potential fixes. I agree with that, so I am looking to clean the valve first. If my problem, which is a slight hesitation under light throttle in usually 4th gear, is not solved by the cleaning, I may need to do more. Thanks

[Willie Williford]

Without knowing how the vehicle was driven before you procurred it, the easiest "clean job" would be to DRIVE IT LIKE A RACE CAR for about 50 miles. Get all the carbon inside hot enough so it is either blown out or burned off.

[Insightful Trekker]

Originally Posted by Willie Williford

<snip>

the easiest "clean job" would be to DRIVE IT LIKE A RACE CAR for about 50 miles.

<snip>

Spoken like a turbocharged Insight owner! <VBG>

This type of "fix" used to occasionally "work" on older carburetted cars without EGR systems. The type of clogs that occur in EGR systems and EFI systems in general do not respond to this "fix". What you frequently "feel" after such treatment is the shift in the learned values of the fuel management system. Sometimes the car feels noticeably (but slightly) "peppier" for a short while until the values "relax" to fit you normal driving style.

As far as cleaning the EGR valve its most likely an exercise in futility. But the price is right! :)

HTH! :)

[Rick Reece]

John,
Would a ultasonic bath be good to use on the EGR valve and EGR port assembly. I was thinking this might be good at deep cleaning the passages but am not sure what I should use as a liquid. (avoiding flamable liquids with a ultrasonic cleaning sort of kills the use of carb cleaner). Just looking for a better tool than scratching the surface with a coat hanger etc... Have fun, RIck

[Insightful Trekker]

Well,

Hmmm. Such a cleaning system is never used in an automotive application AFAIK. Finding one of a sufficient size to fit the EGR valve and Plate is one problem that comes to mind. As I understand ultrasonic cleaners the high frequency oscillations provide "scrubbing" (mechanical) action and penetrate into crevices otherwise unreachable while being non abrasive. Neither "quality" is especially needed with these two parts (big and the places that need cleaning are sufficiently accessible). Nor is slight abrasion a consideration.

But we're still on a circular path as far as I am concerned.

The valve itself rarely fails due to "stickiness". These newer type electrically actuated valves apparently have other modalities of failure. And its the plumbing that will eventually clog. No doubt about it. Using premium fuel is the only long term _dealying_ intervention that can help *YMMV*.

Will EGR cleaning help? With some uncommon types of failure probably.
Will routine EGR valve cleaning as preventative maintenance help? Very unlikely.

If my car begins to exhibit the EGR symptoms; Hesitation, jerking or bucking I'd probably try cleaning once without any real expectation of success. Then clean the EGR plumbing which requires intake manifold removal for EGR plate access. And finally valve replacement. All the above paragraph with the caveat that there are no codes or other symptoms that indicate EGR valve only failure (e.g. electrical segment).

Anyway back to a direct answer to your question. Can't see it hurting anything, but is it the right tool for the job? Hmmm. Just have to try I guess.
Cleaners that are designed to dissolve carbon buildup should be sufficient and possibly better, basically carburetor cleaner etc. Keep the solvent away from the electrical part of the valve though! Its solvent resistant, but it should not be immersed in solvents not considered safe for electric and plastic components.


HTH! :)