Rear wide track mod

[Normand]

Hi guy's,
Few mounth's back, when i happely convert to the Insight, i had mix feeling about the Insight's stability on the highway.
Thanks to Guillermo, i have installed a set of Yoko ES-100 185-60-14.
That was a huge +.
I also modified the camber; -.5 in font -1.0 at rear.
Again a major + in the stability and also in steering input.
But, in tight turns, the rear end was a little twitchy for my taste, you can feel the looseness, it did'nt grab much...
This is how i change the already potent Insight into a Autocross marvel !
Guillermo that may interesse you..

I have installed a set of wheel spacer made by OMP, the spacers are originally for a VW, had the hub lip remove by a machinist, so that the surface are perfectly flat, installed 70mm wheel stud, reduced to 60mm by the machinist.
i also had to remove a bit of plastic off the wheel skirt as the tire was very close to it, i just shave the area where the tire would have rub.

Now the car as a go-kart like handling, the rear end stays put.
I am very happy with this, very happy.

P.S. sorry for bad english.

[Guillermo]

In stock classes we are not allowed to change the offset of the rims by more then 6 mm. And I would not want to because I can drive closer to cones then other cars because the Insight's rear wheels have a narrower track.
And a "loose" rear end is good for autocross because it allows the car to rotate better. I set up my car to rotate during an autocross by putting 42 psi in the front tires and 26 psi in the rear tires when i'm using 185/60R13 race compound tires.

Your mod will increase the stress and reduce the lifespan of the rear wheel bearings, bushings and possibly other suspension components.

Your english is fine, i've seen people write much much worse even though their only language is english.

[Normand]

Forgot to mention, the spacers are 20mm.

[b1shmu63]

Normand, thanks for the information. I'm sure that many on this site have wondered how the Insight would handle if the back wheels were the same spacing as the front. Since there is no way of knowing just how strong the rear suspension components are without testing, you will be our test case. It will be especially interesting as it sounds like you do a lot of hard driving.

I was in Montreal this summer, headed for downtown and driving along the elevated Metropolitain highway. I was doing 85 miles per hour like everyone else and found the Insight became directionally unstable due to the rather deep ruts in the hot ashpalt caused by the trucks. I slowed down a little and the car became stable, but this (one time) experience sure got my attention. I think your modification would have prevented this.

[Holicow]

Are there spacers already available? I am referring to spacers that would fit a CRX or Civic.

Regarding stress: I understand that the increased track could be a source of some stress, but since the Insight is so light, I guess this would be minimal, right?

I have considered trying an increased toe-in (slight) to help with the "wandering" problem, while not changing the tires. At 0 degrees toe, it's no "wander" it cant' go far in a straight line.

[Yves M.]

Hello Normand, This is a great mod. You would not have pictures, would you. I guess that the tires are now half way between the OEM position and the front position.

Is the car weight within the wheel on the studs themselfs or on the center wheel hole. I am asking because I can not figure what is the "hub lip removed by a machinist". Is it removed on the new spacer or on the rear axel

The Insight really corners well with 185/60r14. So I suppose that it is now very sticky. Do you get close to 1G cornering

Hi Normand:

___Another item of note is that the Insight being designed for maximum fuel economy is setup with 0” of Toe. Add 1/8” in and she will stable out a bit but at the cost of another 5 - 6 mpg. I wouldn’t touch this adjustment myself but some might? You also might consider disabling EPS by pulling the EPS fuse. She feels a bit differently without steering assist then with but I wouldn’t have a clue if this helps on the track or not?

___Anyway, here is the Long Term Insight Car & Driver article in which they experimented with Toe-in to increase directional stability and improve turn-in.

Long Term Test: Honda Insight

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:3tmm83xm]Waynegerdes@earthlink.net[/email:3tmm83xm]

[Normand]

Guillermo, you are right on that one, by saying autocross, i mean't solo events on a race track. To my understanding, autocross would be driving trough cones as solo is on a dedicated track ! correct me if i'm wrong.

Anyway, as for wheel bearings being stressed, i guess they will under heavy cornering but not much on the straight the car being relatively light.

I think of rebadging the car as an S995 ! for that it would need an extra dose of HP.... and a rework on the transmission gearing.
The car behave very well when driving onto the deep ruts and is also much less sensitive to wind.

Yves, the stock numbers of front and rear track are 56 1/2"-52".
With the ES-100's probably more like 57"- 52 1/2".
adding the rear spacers as moved it to 54". As the rear end of the car goes inward, it was nessesary to shave the inward lip of the wheelskirt as it would have rub. Even so, it is border line, you cannot put your little finger between the tire and the skirt.

As for pictures, i don't have a camera. So what i suggest is meeting you on this coming saturday, a sort of regional GTG with other Insighters.
You have told me of Christian Charlebois and there is Jean-Yves Bissonnette that would probably enjoy meeting you. Don't forget your camera !
1G of cornering, hummm, i don't know, i don't have the instrument to mesure!

[Guillermo]

Normand,
Solo 1 is a timed lapping event at a race track
Solo 2 is the same as autocross and autoslalom.

Race compound tires are required to get 1 G of cornering force.
If you want to know what that feels in an Insight, come to an autoslalom in Toronto area and i'll give you a ride. (just PM me)

[Normand]

Guillermo,
I would absolutely love that but Toronto is quite far, 5 hours drive and as i work during weed-ends, that says it all !
Perhaps next summer my work schedule will be different and hope that your offer will still stand. Boy would i love that.