Anybody know more about IN-1 - Page 2 - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum
 
Go Back   Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum > 1st-Generation Honda Insight Forum > Modifications and Technical Issues

Please Visit our Site Sponsors Page
Insightcentral.net is the premier Honda Insight Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
» Wheel & Tire Center

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-20-2005, 11:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
Lifetime Member
 
IamIan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Providence RI
Posts: 1,597
Default insight to ev

space i don't think will be an issue ... insight has plenty.

as for weight in the insight ....

as well described in the first message i found on line from the EVDL...

messages copied:
------------------------
You're also forgetting other weighted items that add up fast, like the car's exhaust system that has both a muffler and a catalytic converter...maybe 40 lbs.? Including the weight of the admittedly very light 3 banger at 124 lbs., now we're down to having to lose another 136 lbs. The current 12V accessory battery weighs about 25 lbs., so replacing it with a small AGM that will be charged up by the DC-DC of the Siemens system, throws out another 10 lbs.....now we're at 126 lbs. to lose. The NiMH battery pack weighs
55 lbs.....now we're at 71 lbs. to lose. The Insight's inverter, DC-DC sandwich has a cast aluminum heat sink, and the package probably weighs 30 lbs.....now we're at 41 lbs. to lose.
----------------------------

the above also doesn't say the 50+ Lbs of the 10 gallons of gas and gas tank, allot of EV's also do away with transmition ect....ect....

so converting an insight to electric will remove somewhere around 400 Lbs or so.....

Of course it would then just add it right back in the way of motor , battery, ect.....

I figure around 100 Lbs for Motor....

I figure 50 to 100 Lbs other electrical struff... invertor for AC... wire etc....

Which means we have 200 Lbs to just get back to the same insight weight we started with.... even without addind a bit more for more range as most EV conversions end up weighing several hunered pounds more than they did .... some even end up change suspension etc.... becuase of extra weight.

I know ... alot of EVers love those lead acid batteries.... cheep I know... but good for EV design I don't think so.....

metricmind sells a lithium battery 3.7 VDC 40 AH 1.1 Kg which unless my math is off should end up being about 61 WH / Lbs for 200 Lbs puts me over 12 KW of stored power ... from the EVDL and those who have posted their results ... some of the worst EV ranges are 1 mile per KW and some of the best are like 8 Miles per KW if I play it conservative and say the ultra light Insight with better aerodynamics only get 6 miles per KW that is still over 70 Miles on a charge with no additional weight but a slightly better power curve from the electric motor..... Now I am also of the opinion myself that the Insight will do better than that and that 400 Lbs of batteries is not much of a stretch.....

I also talked to a few of the fuel cell companies... in a nut shell ... the first 100 Lbs for a fuel cel and Metal hydride Storage will give a bit over 4 KW for one hour the pay off is that each additional 40 to 50 Lbs is another hour of geting 4KW per hour .... or another 100 Lbs for another 4 KW for that first hour..... could be useful as a range extender with a smaller battery pack for higher usage .... 200 Lbs of Fuel cell and metal hydride storage just barely would have more than the Lithium after 200 Lbs Fel cell begins to have better and better range ... but 50 miles is enough for me 100 at most for normal driving and fuel cell creates allot of problems for where to get hydrogen and it turns out to be about 60 to 70 % more expensive then the lithium batteries..... so for now it looks like no to fuel cell... unless something happens in the next 3 years or so.

Now personally I am more of a fan of NiMH batteries than Lithium for environmental reasons .... I know the Lithiums hold more juice which is what all EV's are sadly missing energy storage.... but NiMH still can easily do 40+ WH / Lb which 200 Lbs gives at least 8.5 KWH or about 30 to 40 miles conservative .....

I am Planning to put 400 or so Lbs of batteries in when I do it yes I think that will fit in fine. there is more room in the car then most realize..... also if a 1536 kg (3,380 lb) CRX can get 160 Wh / mile then a under 2,000 Lbs Insight should easily get better than that .... but if I only get the 160 that is over 6 miles per KWh should easily have 16 KWh from NiMH which puts me to about 100 miles.... plenty for me.... and i think a conservative figure.

just my two bits.

still have tons of work to do before i am ready.

ian
__________________
00-MT-I1
Modifications: MIMA ( #024 ) + FAS + DabrowskiGridCharger
Efficiency & Renewable energy enthusiast
IamIan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-21-2005, 12:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,442
Send a message via AIM to Rick
Default

Space wouldn't be much of an issue. You'd probably have to loose the use of the rear storage well, but until you have the cover off the IMA box you don't realize just how large it really is. Remove all the styrafoam inserts and it's actually pretty dang big back there.

On the weight issue you always end up putting more weight in to the car for a conversion. You just have to be careful not to exceed the GVW too much. Admittedly you'd probably have to have some custom beefier rear springs made but it's very doable.
__________________
Later, Ricky
02 Red Insight - Sold
06 Silver Civic Hybrid
92 Saturn SC2 Electric, Arizona Alt fuel plate "ZEROGAS"
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 05:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
Lifetime Member
 
IamIan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Providence RI
Posts: 1,597
Default same page

I agree with you Rick ... and I do plan on 200 or so more Lbs said and done then I started with.... but in the estimated 3 to 4 years it will be before I am ready .... some of the technology will surely improve as well.... in the mean time I am just trying to follow the tech changes and get as much ideas as I can to be able to do the best job I can 3 or so years from now....

By the way you said you have a EV of your own you have been working on and that you have some ideas for an Insight conversion yourself..... mind giving me your ideas on what you think would work well?
__________________
00-MT-I1
Modifications: MIMA ( #024 ) + FAS + DabrowskiGridCharger
Efficiency & Renewable energy enthusiast
IamIan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 10:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,442
Send a message via AIM to Rick
Default

Yes I have a 92 Saturn that's been sitting for about 3 years now. I have the 9" advanced DC motor hooked to the transmission so if I need to move it I can put a 12 volt battery to the motor and use the clutch as a go pedal. Actually hopes are I will have funding to complete it this summer, so maybe... just maybe I can have a real EV (right now I have a GEM).

As far as the Insight EV conversion there are several routes you could take for a drive train. One would be hooking a moderately powered AC motor to the stock transmission. With this you could use whateve type of battery you wanted. 250+ mile range would be realistic with lithium batteries. Heck, you'd be able to have over 50 real world miles with lead batteries probably. The only limiting factor would be I'd be afraid to put too much power to the stock transmission.

Idea two, the cheap route, would be a DC drive train probably using a 6.7" advanced dc motor with a baby zilla controller. This would also use the stock transmission. Then use flooded 12 volt batteries. You could probably do this conversion for less than 10K easily with some hunting for used or other cheap parts.

My ultimate idea would be to ditch the stock transmission and put in something that could handle the power. I'm thinking along the lines of a full AC propulsions drive train with the direct drive single gear reduction. This would take a lot of custom fabrication, but in the end you'd have one heck of a car. I would imagine you could smoke pretty much any car out there with this setup, and with their lithium battery bricks you could probably have a 300 mile range.

With this setup you could also do one other thing, eliminate the shifter console on the interior. This would be replaced with a small forward/reverse switch somewhere else in the area. Then you'd have a bit more room on the inside. You'd have to have a custom carpet cut though to cover the whole floor. Idealy the instrument cluster would be left as is and be hacked to be fully functional. The charge assist gague would act as an energy consumption meter and show use and regeneration. The tach would have to be relabeled to display the ~12,000 rpm motor rpm. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with the gas gauge and fcd though.

On the outside I would work on some aero tweaks. The large bottom hole in the front bumper would be eliminated and smoothed over leaving only the small top hole so you could have access to the hood latch. This should also be plenty to provide adequate ventillation for the AC condensor. Or I might even close off the top hole also and do something else for a hood latch that could be accessed after the hood pops up, then do other possible aero tweaks on the under side and make sure no air is dragged through the engine compartment. Then custom fabricate a way to get air flow across the AC condensor. The rest of the underside of the car is nicely done aerodynamically, the engine just necessitates air flow across the radiator.

And at that point if I went through all that trouble the car would have to look good. All wires would be routed through carefully planned wire loom paths. The wiring inside the battery boxes would be neat and the lids to the boxes would be made of clear plastic so they could easily be shown off, yet nicely hidden under the rear carpet. The interior would probably be leather. I would show that car... alot.

Now I don't even want to know what that would cost me... ohh you might also find some ultra light weight Volk wheels for it too.
__________________
Later, Ricky
02 Red Insight - Sold
06 Silver Civic Hybrid
92 Saturn SC2 Electric, Arizona Alt fuel plate "ZEROGAS"
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 02:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
Lifetime Member
 
IamIan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Providence RI
Posts: 1,597
Default pimp my ride rick style

now those are some sweet ideas...

I would rather do that kind of nice electric conversion than some of the multi thousand dollar stereo systems I've seen people drop in cars ... and I would rather personally spend 100k on super EV Insight then a high end mucle car .... and in the end Super Insight would rock.... I would have to so document everything of that conversion.

sweet.
__________________
00-MT-I1
Modifications: MIMA ( #024 ) + FAS + DabrowskiGridCharger
Efficiency & Renewable energy enthusiast
IamIan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2