After a lot of research, I finally figured out how to install a sway bar on my Insight. The closest thing off the shelf that fits is the Shine SRS rear sway bar made for VW A4 Golf/Jetta/New Beetle (99 - ??) http://www.srsvw.com/parts/partdetail.asp?pid=57
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Shine SRS rear swaybar
$195 MSRP
Internal axle-beam mounting
materials: "The bar has an OD of 1.125" and 0.250" wall thickness, TIG welded 4130 chrome-moly steel. CNC machined, Jig built, Normalized and heat treated. Bar weighs 6.5 pounds and uses USA made grade 8 3\8 inch hardware. 32 inches OAL. All bars are powdercoated."
specs: approx 359.2 lbs/ft calculated deflection
install tips: requires drilling 8 holes in axle beam with 3/8" cobalt drill
It does require modifying it by cutting the top protusions with a dremel tool so it will fit in the Insight twist beam rear suspension.
Installling it is much more time consuming and difficult then it looks but it's worth it. It took me 5 hours and the purchase of a 3/8" cobalt drill is essential. It also requires drilling blindly very close to brake lines
Here are better instructions with photos from a similar manufacturer (but since the bolts are further apart from each other, this one will likely not fit the Insight.) http://www.o-bars.com/install-sway.html
Does it work?
YES, this is the stiffest sway bar available for VW golfs and jettas that weigh over 3,000 lbs so it works specially well on my 1880 lb Insight :twisted:
I just finished installing it last friday so I have used it for only 2 club autoslaloms so far. The sway bar stiffens the rear during hard corners so much that there is instant "lift throttle oversteer" on demand when driving at the limit.
This is the fastest way to drive a FWD car and finally for the first time my Insight 3 wheels with 1 tire high in the air like all the best handling FWD cars!
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2000 Insight 5spd with 290,000 Km
Daily driver (previously used for autoslalom & track lapping)
Collision avoidance and Track driving instructor
Interesting, but a bit puzzling. I guess I have a hard time seeing how lifting one wheel clear of the pavement is going to improve cornering. Instead of rubber meeting road in four places, it's meeting in three. Even if those three have the same total force, it's hard to see how you get a net benefit. Think of wide vs narrow tires...
Second, if you do lift your front wheel (in a FWD car) off the pavement, don't you lose traction, just like spinning one wheel on ice?
if you do lift your front wheel (in a FWD car) off the pavement, don't you lose traction, just like spinning one wheel on ice?
That's exactly what installing a stiffer rear sway bar will avoid.
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In FWD cars, the key is to reduce understeer and increase motive traction............ Leaving the front bar stock and increasing only the rear bar allows the front wheels to articulate normally. As written above, the weight that's not sitting on the suspended inside rear wheel is now being applied to the inside front wheel, which is not being unloaded by a huge front bar and is now able to extend to the ground for more traction. Make sense?
The rear inner tire that is in the air of a great handling FWD car is useless during extreme cornering anyways. The fact that it's not supporting any weight of the car means more weight and grip is being transfered to tires that need it.
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2000 Insight 5spd with 290,000 Km
Daily driver (previously used for autoslalom & track lapping)
Collision avoidance and Track driving instructor
WARNING:
Installing a sway bar as stiff as this on light weight car like the Insight will result in advanced and dangerous handling characteristics not recommended for street use. When driving near the limit of traction in corners the car must be at a constant speed or accelerating or else the car will begin to agressively oversteer. Oversteer can only be avoided and corrected in a FWD by applying the throttle.
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2000 Insight 5spd with 290,000 Km
Daily driver (previously used for autoslalom & track lapping)
Collision avoidance and Track driving instructor
I just installed a rear sway bar on my MINI Cooper S. In auto-x conditions, lifting a rear wheel is perfectly fine because the rear swaybar causes it's load to be transfered to the front wheels which are driving the car. Lifting a front wheel will just cause it to spin (no limited slip diff) and you'll loose time.
The reason manufacturers make cars understeer fromt he factory is that on street driving (or even high speed track), the rear end will get unsettled and if your off throttle or need to brake. You get oversteer (rear end comes around). On an auto-x track, you just keep your foot planted and the car goes around the corner much faster. You can't do this when somebody's in front of you.
Guillermo, does the rear swaybar make the car neutral in the corners or does it have a tendency to over/understeer?
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-2000 NF Red
-64.6 LMPG
-JVC El Kameleon HU, JVC 12 disc changer, Infinity Kappa 3-ways up front and Alpine 2-ways in the rear
Guillermo, does the rear swaybar make the car neutral in the corners or does it have a tendency to over/understeer?
I need to test it on a skid pad to be sure. It definitely doesn't understeer anymore, when I ease off the throttle it turns like a dream.
I will be competing in Solo 1 events #3 & #4 on June 18/19 at the Mosport DDT track and they have a skid pad there. So will give a more detailed impression on the sway bar after that.
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2000 Insight 5spd with 290,000 Km
Daily driver (previously used for autoslalom & track lapping)
Collision avoidance and Track driving instructor
Wow, impressive mod, Guillermo! Thanks for being the Beta guy on this!
So I gather that the bar works by basically limiting twist of the twist beam, is that right?
Also, I have to worry just a bit that those 8 big 3/8" holes will weaken the twist beam. Can you respond to this? Any idea how the "beefy-ness" of the Insight twist beam compares to the VW this bar was designed for? In other words, is a weaker/lighter twist beam axle on the Insight likely to be jeopardized by this swaybar (which looks really massive in its own right)?
Finally, just how much material did you have to cut off the swabar to make it fit, and how much of a chore was that? What sort of Dremel attachment did you use for this?
Oh, and one other thing: Where did you get that cool harness bar that's pictured in your car?
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'01 Insight 5-spd, 62k miles <<leanburner
'81 Mercedes 300TD, 168k miles <<beanburner
OK, I think I see that you can select the bars to have either front or back off the ground. I guess I shouldn't have been looking at the pictures
"The rear inner tire that is in the air of a great handling FWD car is useless during extreme cornering anyways."
Yeah, that's what I thought. But wouldn't it be better to have a weight transfer onto that wheel, so it would be useful?
Of course it's all pretty academic for me these days. My cornering is limited by when the dog starts sliding. Of course, I suppose I could always line the hatchback floor with velcro
Very cool!. I really like the harness bar that you have installed. What kind is it? Or is it a homemade job? If it is homemade it looks great! I love what you have done, but doing these mods in Solo II would push me right out of HS class. I could do a front sway bar. Maybe something a little beefier up front. Have you done anything to the front sway bar?
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Rear sway bar installed on Insight - it works!
