after 2 yrs, 50k miles, I've finally gotten regular 70+ mpg for the last 6 tankfuls, and a few commute trips
of 84+, one with 5 miles shaved of: 94.6 one-way.
Right-lane [ slower ] driving,
ignition-key-off on long coasting stretches are probably 2 biggest changes,
plus warmer weather since May . . winter in Massachusetts can kill mpg down below 60 per tank.
So - I still wonder about a few dozen things -
- how hard is it on the car to turn ignition off/on at highway speed, and frequently?
I've been doing for for as little as 1/4 mile.
- Jump-starting @ highway speed, or ANY speed: ok to do? any tradeoffs?
- After ignition-on, how many seconds should you wait before starting engine?
- Better to coast w/ ignition completely off or, on and just not running?
- Should I wait 2 seconds or so after engine-start before engaging clutch?
- How about when to recharge hybrid battery?
- Because I like to coast down hills, battery recharge usually happens with
regular driving after charge drops below 50%.
- Do I really need to avoid EVER using the elec. motor.
etc. - -
- hills, small & large: what strategies work best?
I've tailgated semis & busses - moving vans are best, low to ground, wide.
But I'm not convinced of the payoff as they're often going faster than I'd like.
I've read about Wayne "Hypermiler" who racked up 180 mpg in a competition near Pittsburgh - and
the contenders who had 110 - 125 or so - - - what were their tricks? aside from coasting to 0 in breakdown lane.
I'd appreciate any pointers to a writeup [ or writeups ] of how-to Hypermile.
Chris
2001 5-speed, no A/C, 60.3 LMPG, probably 65.5 for my ownership.
and, yes, it's been called "Silver Bullet" by my wife -
So you want the whole Enchalada in one thread do you?
Well, it depends.
On just how high your wanting to go. Or if you simply want to try and maximize MPG on your daily commute without holding back traffic or otherwise compromising safety for MPG.
Those astronomical MPG numbers you've read about were under very controlled and pre-planned conditions. IIRC the first hypermiler that made it cross country with a 1000 mile tanks even waited (didn't drive) on unfavorable MPG days (as was written up in one of the old Yahoo hybrid groups 7+ ? years ago). He lives in the Knoxville area, I've met him and no he's not me.
Let the links begin
(I hope you knew that was coming )
Here's a recent when all the things that could go wrong came together at the same time.
But the "if A/C is on then turn on some heat" is incorrect, along with accelerating with WOT (unless your route allows for sufficient regenerative braking to eliminate any forced charging as a result). This thread further expands on the concept of assist and better MPG:
- how hard is it on the car to turn ignition off/on at highway speed, and frequently?
Adds a significant amount of extra wear to the parts being moved (ignition switch).
Other "issues" reguarding coasting as addressed in the links above
Quote:
Originally Posted by masscommuter
- Jump-starting @ highway speed, or ANY speed: ok to do? any tradeoffs?
Not sure what you mean by jump starting @ highway speed. If you mean start the engine using the momentum of the car by disengaging the clutch in the apporprate gear, then the additional wear on the clutch is almost nil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masscommuter
- After ignition-on, how many seconds should you wait before starting engine?
Just long enough that the engine dosen't "restart" when the key is turned back on (the engine hadn't stopped turning sufficiently such that re-enabling the ignition etc. causes it to restart by its own momentum. I usually count to three.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masscommuter
- Better to coast w/ ignition completely off or, on and just not running?
Well, if your gonna coast (see the link above titled the same) then key _off_ would be the absolute best (no 12v electrical load being used and the subsequent gasoline needed to generate its replacement). But the MPG meter won't register this savings. And the difference will be minute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masscommuter
- Should I wait 2 seconds or so after engine-start before engaging clutch?
On a "cold" start, yes. That allows for engine oil pressure to build. But from a FAS (Forced Auto Stop, manually operating the key is one way, the others require modifications) standpoint its nil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masscommuter
- How about when to recharge hybrid battery?
- Because I like to coast down hills, battery recharge usually happens with
regular driving after charge drops below 50%.
Reads like normal IMA charge operation to me. Forced charge typically (but there are always unpredictable exceptions) starts with an SoC of 50%. See: viewtopic.php?&t=750 for more than you probably want to know about the IMA system and its quirks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masscommuter
- Do I really need to avoid EVER using the elec. motor.
For HYPER MPG that's how its done. Remember there are HUGE losses of efficiency in the conversion of energy forms. The pattern: Chemical Heat Kinetic is gasoline to motion. For IMA assist there's additional steps in the equation. Remember _all_ motion of the car comes from gasoline, therefore even when the IMA system is "recovering" an amount for energy from braking, the initial energy spent to achieve the speed, elevation for downhill recovery, etc. was done by gasoline. The "extra" steps of converting Kinetic Electrical Kinetic _looses_ mid double digit percentages in efficiency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masscommuter
- hills, small & large: what strategies work best?
IMO "big" hills are always gonna whup the MPG. Rollercoastering the small ones is an MPG increasing trick.
I had to drive from here to Beverly, MA and back last Weds. Is that anywhere near you? Going up was 94mpg (cold early morning air, construction delays on the Mass Pike), return was a bit over 100mpg, net 96.5mpg for the 300+ miles.
More or less the same methods you are using:
(1) Driving at speed limit on local roads and in construction zones, 45-55 mph on interstates - takes a while to get used to traffic coming up behind but it really is not a problem if you do two things: (a) keep to the right side of the right lane to draw attention to yourself and (b) use your hazard flashers for about 10 flashes to warn semis when they are still way back so they can easily switch lanes and pass you (if the semis are happy everyone else is more tolerant) - on all but the steepest hills I set a floor of 45mph, downshifting or whatever to stay above that, and generally try to maintain 49-50mph - no I don't coast to 0 on the shoulder
(2) Coast gradual downhills engine off (see below), regen on steeper ones rather than build up speed above 55mph (this can be done by taking your foot off the gas for periods of time, fuel cutoff will engage if rpms are above idle) - building up too much speed is not an advantage because it bleeds off energy to air drag
(3) Cop light regen on levels and on downhills too gradual to coast
(4) Try to minimize assist as John says - if battery drops below about 60% forced regen begins and that costs you mpg - the Honda hybrids tend to be assist-happy which means that pulse and glide does not work well with them (pulse being a brisk acceleration, which invokes assist) - P&G works great in a non-hybrid
(5) Stay in lean burn as much as you can (i.e., 75mpg or preferably 100mpg) - this takes a delicate foot - this and (4) make the methods used in the MT Insight quite different from those used for non-hybrids.
(6) Keep big buffers ahead of you so you don't have to brake and burn momentum
(7) Get an accurate pressure gauge and inflate tires to sidewall rating of 44psi (or even above, your decision) - this increases your coast distances - it may also help a bit to go to synthetic 0-20W motor oil
Leaving the ignition completely off is extremely dangerous because your airbags are inactivated. So if you shut the engine down to coast please key back to the ignition-on position, i.e., where it would be if you were just driving along!!
Drafting isn't as effective as the above methods for the reasons you noted, not to mention the hazards of doing it.
I used to key off/on to kill the engine for coasts, but now have a FAS switch as part of a MIMA system (99mpg dot com). Essentially this pushbutton temporarily blocks fuel to the injectors which stalls the engine and puts it into a mode identical to the autostop you get at a stoplight:
(1) all of the electronics, safety systems, lights stay up
(2) moving the gearshift lever into gear restarts the engine instantly via the 144v IMA motor rather than keying on and using the 12v battery
(3) engine will automatically restart if the brake booster vac drops too low
(4) electric steering works as normal of course
I have the FAS button on the front of the gearshift knob so I can shift to neutral and kill the engine in one operation.
What mpg you can expect depends a lot on the terrain, traffic, length of your commute (short ones are really tough), winds, and temp as you have noted. And how long you have been working at it. I started two years ago and my numbers are still climbing.
Many high-mpg Insight pilots post on another website which specializes in hypermiling all types of cars. The name of this website is blocked here, but Google-ing "hypermile" will lead you there. Perhaps we could meet sometime depending on where you are.
__________________
2006 MT
MIMA w/FAS module
various mods to driver
- how hard is it on the car to turn ignition off/on at highway speed, and frequently? I've been doing for for as little as 1/4 mile.
- Jump-starting @ highway speed, or ANY speed: ok to do? any tradeoffs?
- After ignition-on, how many seconds should you wait before starting engine?
- Better to coast w/ ignition completely off or, on and just not running?
- Should I wait 2 seconds or so after engine-start before engaging clutch?
- How about when to recharge hybrid battery?
- Because I like to coast down hills, battery recharge usually happens with regular driving after charge drops below 50%.
- Do I really need to avoid EVER using the elec. motor. etc. - -
- hills, small & large: what strategies work best?
I've tailgated semis & busses - moving vans ...
As I know and understand it, what you are suggesting here is unlawful; i.e. "... turn ignition off/on at highway speed, ..." If you're not sure about what has been suggested here, do check with a local policeman or state trooper.
Worse yet, should you continue to engage in such activites and be involved in a motor vehicle accident (your fault or not) you may find that your insurace company, should they find out that you were engaged in such activites it would be reasonable of you to expect that your claim may not be honored, which in turn could open the legal door to a host of unwanted grief, economic and legal.
I agree that turning off the ignition for long downhill coasts could be dangerous, but I will admit I've done it many times. You've got to be sure not to turn the key so far that the steering wheel locks. The solution would be a simplified version of MIMA that allows Forced Auto Stop. Manual control of Regenerative Braking would be nice too. Being able to control when the Assist kicks in would help. I Guess the full MIMA system would work best...
__________________
'02 Blue 5 Speed
OMPG - 83.4
LMPG - 77.3
Best Tank Distance - 1273 miles
Best Tank MPG - 95.1
'01 Carbon Fiber VMax (satisfies my need for speed)
Wow - once again, a GarGantuan thanks to Insightful Trekker
and also to " red1dr - ( RE: Essex, CT -> Beverly, MA, FYI: most of Rte. 128 is my daily commute. 100 mpg? I'm impressed.)
Thanks esp. for interleaved resp. AND for links
I wondered whether anyone would understand wording of my questions - - but - no prob. on this forum
I always keep an eye on rear-view mirror so as to not disrupt flow of speeders coming up -
there's no sense in making enemies or worse.
LOL, too, with some those links -
Maryland troopers/ DC guy 50 mph uphill:
I happen to have known those troopers, and they lived up to their reputation.
"State Trooper" happened to be the career of choice for high school hot-rodders / back-road drag racers in Maryland:
Become a trooper: drive as fast as you want !
Drafting - Yes - I finally decided: not worth it.
Altho, the media-friendly hypermiler guy who got on CNN etc was drafting during demo with a reporter in his car,
getting . . . buffeted by wind . . ., so he had to be pretty close to the trailer.
Altho the Disc. Channel guys "drafting" research reported huge dropoff in air resistance, fuel economy % improvement wasn't much.
Big-small hill strategy makes sense. . .
etc.
Thanks a million.
p.s. - Clean Diesel is now here in the US - VW's '09 Jetta sedan & wagon since Aug. - it passes inspection in 50 states.
And I don't think it's using Mercedes "inject urea" method to cure NOx in exhaust . . .
Diesel may still be unsavory, but plant-oil producers in 3rd world countries are ramping up crops & refineries
to provide veggie-diesel, which in some # of years may level that playing field at the pump.
Drafting - Yes - I finally decided: not worth it.
Altho, the media-friendly hypermiler guy who got on CNN etc was drafting during demo with a reporter in his car,
getting . . . buffeted by wind . . ., so he had to be pretty close to the trailer.
"Surfing" the wake of an 18 wheeler (in the buffeting zone) is usually at the 3 second rule distance, technically safe. But you'll rarely find a big rig that "likes" having a "flea".
But there are few drivers that really dont want you back there. Most are friendly if you have CB and can talk to them. You can offer a service that they will like. Moving from one lane to another in a big rig can be a problem in heavy traffic. I offer them a service. When they turn on the turn signal to change lanes, I move over and block traffic so he can then get over. Even without a radio, it only takes doing it once and he gets (and likes) the idea.
As far as improvement in mileage, I get a full 15 mpg improvement and I stay back the 3 second distance. Just pick a rig with a good wind shadow and you can stay back. The best rig is a flatbed trailer with a big lumpy piece of equipment on it. But all you have to do is pull in and try it. If you dont get a big improvement drop off and wait for the next rig.
__________________
Jim Isbell
2000, 5 speed, 250,000 miles
"If you are not living on the edge, well then,
you are just taking up too much space."
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Is there a FAQ /similar "how to hypermile" ?
)
when all the things that could go wrong came together at the same time. 
If you mean start the engine using the momentum of the car by disengaging the clutch in the apporprate gear, then the additional wear on the clutch is almost nil.
Heat 
