Low Mileage issues

georgeadams13090 · 05-16-2009, 10:47 AM

My 2003 standard Insights mileage over the winter months went from an average of 61mpg to about 51mpg due to a few factors, four Blizzak snow tires, winter gas and cold weather. So as spring arrived I was surprised it had not improved so I did a test against my brothers exact car with the same driver. My car, 51mpg, his 70.2 so I was quite upset and my car seemed way under powered. He recommended to increase the tire pressure to 44 psi and to use high test gasoline and thats all I did.
I found I can now use 5th gear without it dogging down and at 60 mph my average jumped to 88mpg average in 5th on a level road...what a difference! I don't care if I have to pay a bit more for the gas...its worth it.

Willie Williford · 05-16-2009, 12:34 PM

Your "tire pressure" will have more of an effect on your mileage than high octane fuel. The Insight engineers spend many hours and a lot of money on designing teh INSIGHT ONE for "regular" gas use.
Numerous papers, debates, arguments, fights, etc. have been done on the factor of "high octane" gives better mileage.
"Most" Hypermilers use 50 psi as the normal tire pressure.
It will give you a firmer ride and if you have "pot holes" in your area, it will rattle your molars.
You changed two factors in your quest to improve mileage, so your experiment is flawed.
I run regular most of the time, even with the "TURBO" setup. (Unless I know I will be running hard).

(My opinion)..........Willie

jkbrushaber · 05-16-2009, 02:46 PM

Did you remove the snow tires?

Good idea on the tire pressure. I run 50 psi all around.

The gas station may have just switched from winter to summer blends.(?) This would make an immediate improvement.

I have tried mid and high-grade gas once each. I did this in cooler months when my mpg was down. I guess I was desperate to find a fix. I never noticed any obvious change. However, it was during the winter when conditions change a lot day to day and week to week. Therefore comparing this 2 week tankful to the last is difficult. I think I would have noticed an increase such as yours.

Was this change noted immediately after filling up the tank? I have noticed a couple of times that right after a fillup, I get amazingly better performance and mpg. For example, I recall a nice warm summer day last year that I got over 90 mpg on my cummute home after filling up. The day before and the day after, I was right around 80 mpg. When this was occurring, I noticed how high the FCD was under various conditions (speed/throttle/acceleration/incline/decline etc.) While I found it very unusual, I also felt I had more power and could stay in leanburn with more throttle than usual. Very odd. I recall hearing about this phenomenon before. I don't know if the "fresh" gas is actually better due to it's cool temperature, or oxygenation from splashing into the tank, or...??? Or, is it some type of computer glitch that the FCD says you are getting much better than is reality. Whether "real" or not, it's kind of nice.

Let us know how your car responds on the next few trips

My 2003 standard Insights mileage over the winter months went from an average of 61mpg to about 51mpg due to a few factors, four Blizzak snow tires, winter gas and cold weather. So as spring arrived I was surprised it had not improved so I did a test against my brothers exact car with the same driver. My car, 51mpg, his 70.2 so I was quite upset and my car seemed way under powered. He recommended to increase the tire pressure to 44 psi and to use high test gasoline and thats all I did.
I found I can now use 5th gear without it dogging down and at 60 mph my average jumped to 88mpg average in 5th on a level road...what a difference! I don't care if I have to pay a bit more for the gas...its worth it.

georgeadams13090 · 05-16-2009, 07:50 PM

I removed the snow tires and I just took a 40 mile trip in the rain and I was sorely dissapionted with my battery almost empty and 52 mpg again. My tires are now at 50 psi. Yes my earlier readings were just after I filled up.
I've read posts of many insight owners with long trips of 700 miles at 90 to 105 mpg averages...I just don't buy it. I say prove it to me...
I think the truth is that a good driver in the summer...no wind, no drafting, all stock std. insight on the level will average no more than 65MPG. If someone is doing better then they are going down hill or being pulled by a rope. I just don't buy it! Feel free to comment...I want to learn...

red1dr · 05-16-2009, 10:23 PM

Are you running the stock tires in the stock sizes? If not, that can make a difference as the stock RE92's were apparently specially engineered for the Insight-I in terms of weight and low rolling resistance. Also, non-stock sizes would also affect the mileage readings (obviously).

I run mine at 65psi, no problems so far and the ride seems fine to me.

Rain will reduce your mpg, especially if it is heavy enough that water puddles on the pavement. Wind direction has an effect too, as does outside temps.

Not sure what sort of "proof" of mpg you expect on an online forum??

**satchel** · 05-17-2009, 12:13 AM

I drove a 741 mile tank of 10.3 gallons last week. Through the Flint Hills and Smoky Hills at 60-70mph. Kansas is not flat. I wish, I'd get 80-90mpg or better. Did get 86mpg for 50miles with a little tail wind up in southern Nebraska one afternoon. This was 95% highway driving.
Run 60# in stock tires. Use the scan gauge and go shoeless to try and keep it in lean burn as much as possible. You have to work at it some, let the terrain dictate your actions. Drive a little slower than you might like, I see a big gain going 55 instead of 65. Trouble is with 250 miles to go I'm inclined to do 65 if that's the speed limit.
If I don't have to be somewhere in a hurry I'll take the 55mph blue highway that follows the flat river valley instead of staying on the 65mph main road(one such detour is actually shorter by quite a few miles).
There's a big correlation between temperatures and mpg which has led to many installing the hot air intake mod. I'm looking forward to summer temps. On level ground in 80F temps I was pegging the FCD around 100mpg. It's still 45F starting out in the morning though.
A head wind kills mileage. Rain will drag it down too. Ridge ride to limit it's effect. A stiff tail wind got me 93mpg on a segment once. I don't have any control over the weather though!

georgeadams13090 · 05-17-2009, 06:44 AM

I had 2 Bridgestone 165 -65-r14 Ponenza tires put on a month ago. The car has lost mileage ever since I had Honda do a diagnosis on my car. It has lost a bit of power, in fact it was raining yesterday and the battery totally discharged on my normal trip where it usally recharges.

jkbrushaber · 05-17-2009, 07:54 AM

I agree with your 90-100mpg observation. Do these people live up on a mountain and only drive to work in the morning. In the afternoon, they must get towed home every night. LOL

I'm sure it definitely helps to live in the right place. In the winter, I'm lucky to get near 70. Spring/Fall near 75. Summer 80+. If it were 80 F here all the time, the hills were eliminated, and the DOT nicely resurfaced my bumpy roads, I'm sure I'd be over 90 mpg. Unfortunately, I woke up this morning from a nice dream and realized I live in Wisconsin.

I have to strongly agree with getting a ScangaugeII. You can get one of $150 including S/H from a group by at cleanmpg.com. Its a great device that with easily help you increase you mpg. I would say you may get 5 extra mpg using this device. The best things it does is let's you know the numerical value of your throttle input (which you can maintain, or lower for cruising) and to see exactly when you are in "lean-burn" (so you can maintain). Also, once in "lean-burn", you will know how much throttle you can give to accelerate before you will lose "lean-burn". This device will also detect (and reset) any trouble codes for you, which easily pays for itself.

You should look over your invoice and/or talk to your mechanic to try and figure out what they may have done to cause a change. The first thing I would check is your air filter, maybe it got clogged up over the winter.

red1dr · 05-17-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeadams13090

I had 2 Bridgestone 165 -65-r14 Ponenza tires put on a month ago.

What brand and size are the other two tires?

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeadams13090

..in fact it was raining yesterday and the battery totally discharged on my normal trip where it usally recharges.

How hard was it raining? Was it windy too? Often when it rains there is wind as well and driving into the wind in the rain can have a devastating effect on mpg.

How fast are you driving? If you want better mpg, slowing down to 50-55mph usually helps, as pointed out above.

georgeadams13090 · 05-17-2009, 10:15 AM

I just ordered a new air filter, its in good shape but over the winter I found that a deer mouse totally filled the air cleaner box full with peanuts. The mouse was quickly dispacted without loss of life or limb. The guy changing my oil wondered how the car ran at all...LOL.
I did have the mechanic check the spark plugs and he said they were fine but I read that they are numbered per the cylinder 1,2 and 3? So who know if they went back in correctly, in fact thats when my mileage took a dive.
My brother has one of those meters you mentioned, I may have to get one. Seems like all I have done is put money into this car...spend a grand to save $100.00 deals.
I would like to keep the car as gas is going up and I have so much invested thus far and its perfect for running around compared to my Tundra at 13 mpg.
I just wish I could find a honda mechanic who knows what he's doing, thats why I'm here asking the best of the best!