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Old 08-11-2010, 10:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Troubleshooting my 2000 Insight

OK, I just got my car back from its last service at Lakeland Honda in Sheboygan WI. I wrote here a while back about an engine compartment fire that resulted from their service guy leaving a shop rag in there, draped over the exhaust manifold. That, along with what appears to be a near-total incompetence in dealing with this vehicle, is prompting me to get it serviced elsewhere. I'm considering doing at least some of that myself.

Here's the sequence of events:

1) IMA light came on, battery was diagnosed to be bad
2) Lakeland replaced the IMA battery, battery condition monitor and motor control module
3) They also performed recall campaign 07-038, replacing the engine/powertrain control module and checking the fuel injection
4) I drove the car home, noticed lower MPG immediately, but it was raining so I blew off the lower MPG figuring wind and the wet road could be causing it.
5) About a week later was driving it in nice weather, getting only 55MPG and not seeing any lean burn. Also, my aftermarket cruise control was not working. When I got home I decided to look in the engine compartment to see if something had gotten disconnected on the cruise during the service, and also to see if there was anything obviously amiss that might prevent lean burn. Found burned shop rag and screwdriver in engine compartment.
6) Called dealership to complain, also managed to contact Honda district service manager, who said he could do nothing since the car was out of warranty. I didn't want Lakeland to touch the car again due to a history of bad service and now this engine compartment fire.
7) Finally gave in and had Lakeland fix the fire damage and told them about the inability to enter lean burn mode.
Got the car back today. Lakeland says they can find nothing wrong that would prevent lean burn -- It still is getting crappy mileage despite having A/C turned off.

The big problem I have is that I am NOT seeing ANY lean burn AT ALL since the IMA replacement service that ended with the burning rag in my engine compartment. There must be something wrong.

Honestly, I have a hard time believing these guys know WTF they are doing. I spent over a YEAR having them chase down a problem with rough running and awful MPG that was finally traced to the Idle Air Controller. Now this. The Insight is 10 years old this month and I really don't think anyone working there now has a clue how to fix these complex cars.

SO...

I want to be able to diagnose what is wrong with this car. Would someone who is familiar with servicing this car please give me a rundown on what equipment I'll need to check the various components that could be preventing lean burn from occurring? I have the service manuals on the car and already do all the service on my fully-electric Solectria Force sedan and E-10 electric pickup, so I think I can handle this. I'm going to get the manuals out tonight and start looking them over to see if they have details on the lean-burn mode and the conditions the car must see before entering that mode.

I'd appreciate your input.

-Tom
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 175
Default lean burn issues

I'm no expert, so only value my 2 cents at about 1 cent.

I would suspect the burning rag may have damaged a sensor. I know that for lean burn to occur, the car has to be at a warm operating temperature. If a temp sensor is damaged, maybe this would disallow leanburn. I also know that during leanburn, you regularly drop-out to purge the NOX out of the system. What ever sensors responsible for this could be involved in your issue as well.

I know this is vague and probably things you have already considered, but I figured I'd chime in since noone else has.

Best of luck
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default

Hi Tom,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. They sound similar to mine (although the burned rag definitely tops my story!). I'm also trying to figure out why my car is running so rough, and getting such bad MPG, and draining the battery daily (2nd battery). I've posted details here: Old-timer getting worse mileage - because of older battery?

I'm wondering if your problem is similar... although I haven't replaced the Idle Air Control Valve in my car (I'm very curious as to what that fixed, if anything!). Have you already cleaned your EGR valve and manifold plate? Are you still on the car's original O2 sensor?

There are some really smart guys on this forum who will hopefully be able to offer you more detailed guidance. Maybe this bump will help!

-fly
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