Plug-in recharging of the IMA battery?

[EVFan]

Hi folks,

Has anyone modded their Insight to recharge the IMA battery while parked in the garage?

Seems for a few penny's worth of electricity, I could start each day with a fresh, full IMA battery. When my battery is full I get great mileage. After running around on a hot day and using boost a lot, I sometimes wind up with only 1/2 to 1/4 charge left when I get home which just reduces mileage further the next time I drive the car. Would be real nice to top-off that battery via an external power source and I can't imagine it'd take much electricity, given the relatively small size of the pack (compared to a pure EV).

[IamIan]

yes it has been and is being done.

if you want the SOC in the system to keep track of it you have to have the key on in the accessory possition.... and you must be !!!EXTREAMLY!!! careful when you connect the deadly / leathal volatge connection... do not do this is you are not well exterienced and know how to deal with nearly 200VDC.... this is a job for qualified experienced educated personel only... the high voltage battery in the Insight can easily kill you.

If i recall correctly someone was doing this without the SOC being kept track of ... ie, they had the key out of the ignition and the accessory power was off... which was causing some issues but was working in limited ways... I do not recall all the details.... search around the forum and such you might find it .... I seem to recall mike at http://www.99mpg.com was working with someone on this but again I do not recall all of the details off hand... ... search around ... or email mike would be my advice...

but the short answer is yes... have been done .... can be done...

[EVFan]

Thank you for the response. I know how to deal with high DC & AC voltages, so not a worry there. I can leave the key on, I keep the car in a locked garage.

So, is Mike the only one doing this, or have others done it different ways and are there instructions or a how-to floating around? I did poke around at 99mpg.com and it looks like this can be included with MIMA but I'm concerned about MIMA voiding my IMA warranty, at this point I'd prefer to just have a basic external charging ability and nothing more.

(I hope I'm not straying into banned territory here - not trying to start a MIMA discussion - just want to know if external charging is available any other way. If this discussion is inappropriate per the rules I apologize.)

[joecvt]

Originally Posted by EVFan

...it looks like this can be included with MIMA but I'm concerned about MIMA voiding my IMA warranty, at this point I'd prefer to just have a basic external charging ability and nothing more.

And you are not concerned about external charging voiding your IMA warranty.

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner

[b1shmu63]

The technology of the Insight battery pack does not allow charge determination by voltage. Recharging the pack without knowing the status of the battery charge will likely lead to overcharge and recalibrations (recals). Neither will destroy the pack immediately, but the overcharge condition will increase electrolyte venting from the cells and the cycling caused by recals will gradually degrade the coiled cell electrodes. That said, if your warranty is expired and you want to experiment, you may be able to set up a timed charge system similar to what is used on many simple consumer chargers. If you monitor the recharge using the SOC meter in the Insight you should be able to characterize the time required for various indicated charge levels.

Another approach would be to use a deep cycle large capacity battery to store the power you will need to provide the Insights 12 volt energy for the duration of a regular day. The extra battery would be set up in parallel with the charging system in such a way that the Insight's charging system will kick in if the voltage falls excessively. This system could provide as much cheap energy as the IMA charge mod, and would avoid dealing with potentially lethal IMA power.

Note that Toyota is currently seeking legislation that will clearly exempt them from responsibility for damage caused by modification of their Synergy system. If enough owners hack their systems Honda will likely do the same, therefore neither myself nor anyone associated with this site recommend either mod. Expecting Honda to honor the IMA warranty when the pack is being stressed by the customer is unreasonable.

[EVFan]

Joe: Yes, I'm sure external charging would void the warranty if they found out, too. I simply figured that could be disconnected with 10 seconds effort and nobody would ever know, vs the time it would take to remove MIMA.

Kip: I appreciate your reply as well. I agree that stressing the pack and asking for warranty coverage is unreasonable. It was not my intention to stress or overcharge the pack in an inappropriate manner. I was looking for a way to provide the power through the IMA system so it could charge the pack and track SOC, thus ensuring all of the battery management systems Honda built into the vehicle were doing their job.

Anyway, I have enough info to move forward now (or make a decision to not). Thanks to all for your replies.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by EVFan

So, is Mike the only one doing this, or have others done it different ways and are there instructions or a how-to floating around?

Mike is not the only one... but his web site has the best description with pictures of how his v-boost system attaches and works... of course his v-boost does it while the car is driving, with a battery pack ... but the same method can be used without the batteries at home while the stock IMA control system is all powered up to keep track of the SOC.

I forget his name but someone else who has an insight has a high voltage input power supply they are using less than 1 amp charging current to charge up the stock High voltage battery.

The basic idea is that the stock system will keep track of the SOC and current in and out if you feed the stock high voltage battery at the correct point the correct DC voltage while the car is turned on.... Mike does this on the road with his V-boost system , and there are others who have rigged up smaller house power supplies to do it just at home....

You do not need MIMA to do this .... if all you want to do if top off the stock high voltage battery .... but you will be voiding your warranty just as much as previously said... Actually MIMA has nothing to do with the v-boost system he uses , MIMA is just a way to use the extra SOC.... v-boost just puts the extra SOC into the battery.

You might want to install the DC keep alive that other Insight owners developed / designed for FAS users to keep the Insights DC to DC working.... that way while you are parked you do not drain the 12 Volt system.... of course the DC keep alive will also void your warranty.... or you could just also attach a 12 volt mender / charger to keep the 12 volt system toped up while parked and having all the vehicle systems on....

[b1shmu63]

A small charger on the 12 volt battery would be a very simple way of keeping the battery charged and would require minimal wattage.

[EVFan]

Wait - so, if I simply hook up a regular 12 volt charger to the 12 volt battery, then turn the key on, the Insight will take that power and charge the high voltage pack? That seems entirely too easy.

[b1shmu63]

Correct, that is way too easy. It will only keep the 12 volt battery from being discharged by the IMA electronics that you are using to monitor the IMA battery charge. That charging will have to be done by an appropriate high voltage applied properly to the correct place. We really can not explain this further on this forum. This is a warranty buster and a potentially dangerous or fatal mod. Although I'm a technologist with decades of power conversion design experience, I have not considered doing this. If you need further help, please communicate directly with a member who has.