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Old 11-27-2012, 11:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default HCH1 UK Manual Lean Burn

OK I'm driving about in my new to me HCH1 and have some LB questions.

I'm using my HCH1 OBDIIC&C to monitor what is happening.
Lean burn now works after replacing the LAF sensor which was blown.

However it seems difficult to get into (Not due to engine load or throttle position)
Once in LB it lasts a reasonable while then purges, but this last's a massive amount of time compared to the G1 and it's hard to get it to go back into LB.

So questions.

How often do your HCH1's go into LB and how long are your purges on a flat road constant load? Can you give me some rough count in your head figures on length of LB spells V length of purges?

It doesn't exhibit any egr stutter, it feels like the CAT is just taking a long time to clean itself and the ECM just won't allow LB back again until it gets the clear signal from the secondary o2 sensor or some other device. Might be time for a new CAT as i suspect this one might throw a below effciency code soon.

Also has anyone looked at the EGR chamber on an HCH1 and cleaned out the passages? I wonder it it gets blocked up like the G1? It looks quite easy to get too from the diagrams. I'll probably have a look.

Interestingly it looks like the check engine light has been deliberately disabled in this car by a previous owner/dealer to mask the LAF sensor engine fault. luckily I plugged in my gizmo and found the issue. Need to take the cluster out to fix the CEL as i think the bulb must have been removed from the back.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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LAF sensor problem could be part of the lean burn?

Ill see what happens when i get my used sensor to replace my current one (P1162, P1167) as lean burn is much harder to get than when i first got my car. Similiar symptons would be present on a HCH.

How you findng the car?
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
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My car is exceptionally easy to get into lean burn... my dad even commented how much easier it is to get and hold than his I1. 3rd, 4th, or 5th, I get the green light frequently, and purges are at max the 7-8 seconds of the I1, sometimes as short as 1-2 seconds.

Only problems I have with mine is getting into lean burn the first time. The engine is warm enough, but it will kick into lean burn, and immediately back out, then in, then out ad nauseum. Usually I end up braking at a light, then the next time I'm at speed it works fine.

The other time is any time the engine has been used hard, lean burn seems to be disabled for a while (maybe to allow the cat to cool below some threshold?). So if I'm on the interstate and climb a hill in 5th using max assist, it'll be ok, but if I climb the same hill by downshifting to 4th and punching the gas, when I get over the top, lean burn will be distincly disabled.

Also: there's a hard cutoff for lean burn at 65 mph. If you are going at or above this, it WILL NOT go in. However, if you're already in and say going down a long hill, it'll lean burn as high as 75 (as fast as I've ever driven the car).

EDIT: on flat ground, mine seems to go about the same 1 minute the I1 does, but usually the purge cycle is very short at ~2-3 seconds... can be as high as 7-8 on rare occations, and sometimes resumes almost the instant I feel lean burn kick out.

Sam
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Last edited by samwichse; 11-28-2012 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:22 AM   #4 (permalink)
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"Only problems I have with mine is getting into lean burn the first time. The engine is warm enough, but it will kick into lean burn, and immediately back out, then in, then out ad nauseum."
Sounds like what my Insights both do for the first few minutes of being above the 154 degree lean-burn threshold on a cold day but with the increased vehicle load/lack of available power when cold if it doesn't work I give it a minute before letting the car kick me as it fails multiple times.

"The other time is any time the engine has been used hard, lean burn seems to be disabled for a while"
I notice this with the Insight too, but usually only for 10-30 seconds.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm getting used to it, certainly nice and comfortable. Thanks for the info I'll monitor the lean burn and see how we do. Got 64 mpg on a trip today. Pack is weak though and needs those A123 packs fitting!!

No error codes over 100 miles, I though CAT might be nearing end of life at 143,000 miles and was slow to clean itself. Who knows.

I might change the second O2 sensor as well just to see what happens.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Something like this looks like it'd be way easier to hook up than the A123 pouches:

EV-Power | LiFePO4 High Power Cell (3.2V/20Ah)

But max charge is listed as 20a... though I suppose you could limit that and still come out ahead with a plug in hybrid.

Excited to see your lithium setup when it gets installed.

Sam
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2000 Insight, "The Basket Case" @178k miles, 64.5 mpg so far
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm going to be using two x 28S3P oem A123 blocks with 18.5% MDM current hack not individual pouches. 4 connections only on the packs
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
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i have cleaning out my EGR valve on an HCH1, no miss off idle, just rich burning. what noticed was it did cleans up the exhaust fumes to smelling of how a clean exhaust should smell at idle.
it's can be soak in a solvent instead of buying, even used the same gasket but. do buy a gasket sealer. And re-torque a few week later. I just used brake cleaner after using a screw driver to scraping the hard carbon that was also in between the seat of the small round valve preventing it to close fully.
Another thing that helped is where the throttles cables both meet the engine mount holder. push the tiny cable bolt till it flush to the mount,it will also push the throttle pedal higher, a longer travel, (it took up the slack as it creeped forward) also watch the idle speed, 745-774 is around average it set stock here. Can't change that without honda specific procedure.most you can do it prevent hang up in linkages that contribute to lower mpg at get rid of sloppy loose play.by turn the linkage bolt close to the engine. I think this is important as the idle base is which the computer sensors work off, and a rich idle and sloppy throttle will throw everything off.

On Another fas subject If I may, I tried pulling the fuse on the ECU FI car still runs, guess it's need to be grounded, but tried the fuel pump, instant one second engine kill with speedo lite, so I cut a fuse and made a fuse tap with fuse in line and used a click momentary switch, perfect, I have a push button start kit coming.
I plans to put a tiny plate that prevent the key further turning into lock just a precaution.and soon to get a vacuum reserve canister also.
A tip and guarantee from getting your car stolen,is buy a thick about 3 foot chain seat to steering wheel, take out your seat bolt and put the Chain link in-between the seat leg and tight it down hard, after use epoxy putty to cover that bolt head that need to be pounded out to get at, but really if they see that chain it's enough.

Last edited by retepsnikrep; 11-30-2012 at 05:49 AM. Reason: Quote deleted
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Insuffcient Lean Burn

I'm still not happy with how often or how easily my car goes into lean burn.

Above 50-55mph no matter what I try I can't get it to activate LB.

Below 45 mph when warm then no problem. And long LB periods can be obtained.

It also seems very unpredictable but no codes are stored.

So could it be due to a faulty or missing outside temp sensor?

Poor old bunged up Cat? But not bad enough to trigger effciency threshold error?
It has brand new LAF fitted.

Bunged up EGR/Plate? Car has no symptoms of a bad egr though, jerking etc.

Any other ideas?

Car has recently had top service inc plugs, filters, oil, tappets, new laf sensor.

Edit

Cleaned EGR passages only minor carbon build up so looks like that is not it.
I suspect a poor or near end of life CAT but that's expensive.
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Last edited by retepsnikrep; 12-29-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Interesting. My car has a hard limit of exactly 65mph where entering lean burn is disabled (though it will still be lean burning at 75mph if you go into lean burn at the top of a big hill and hold it as you accelerate down).

I have noticed frequently that using the engine hard (dropping to 3rd or 4th and hitting the gas hard enough that the AFR drops to 11.1 or so) or a long period of higher RPMs like climbing a couple mile long hill in 4th, lean burn will be impossible to enter for a while. Then suddenly it will be reenabled and work as normal again.

ECT isn't overly warm (usually still around 86C), I'm guessing it may do this to allow the cat to cool... perhaps the NOx adsorbant in the first cat is temperature sensative and will be damaged at higher temps? To me, the behavior seems so consistent as to be designed-in. I suppose cat temperature isn't in the OBDII info for the car is it?

Sam
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2000 Insight, "The Basket Case" @178k miles, 64.5 mpg so far
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