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Old 02-25-2007, 11:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Gettin a replacement key made?

Hi Guys
I just won a bid for a salvage 01 CVT Insight, that I will be turning into a running IMA system demo for our UDHEV hybrid seminar.
http://www.99mpg.com/understandingdiagn/
The car will be here next week.
The car has no key, and is probably in park, so I will have trouble moving it around to work on it.
Does anyone know if I can get a new key made if I present the title and the Vin# to a honda dealor ?
Any Idea what it would cost?
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Old 02-25-2007, 01:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Not 2 much. I had to replace one that I bent it my front door when I slamed it and got the key stuck. But then I have been going to the same dealer every seince I got the insight.
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Old 02-25-2007, 04:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Congradulations on your adoption!
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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IIRC the key's cut can be retrieved by any Honda dealer by VIN.

Your biggest "problem" is the imbedded key chip and its electronic code. Any cut key will simply work the doors any unlock the steering but won't allow the car to start. Only the HDS can program a new key to the immobilizer system. If you already have a key for the existing PCM your using then there are key "clone" machines that can copy the cut and code in one operation. See your local locksmith shop.

If I'm reading between the lines corerctly you don't have a functonal key that corresponds to the PCM. Then your only option is to bring the whole functional assembly (i.e. the car) for the HDS to program the PCM to a new keys imbedded chip. There is no "archive" for immobilizer codes to do it any other way.

If the correctly coded key is damaged simply get a non chipped blank cut to match the lock and tape the two heads together. Probably only a stop gap measure.

Round these parts for a cut blank that has a code chip and a trip to the HDS your in the $120 neighborhood parts and labor. :/

HTH!
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Old 02-25-2007, 07:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the help John.
The Coparts info said that there was no key, so I am hoping that the doors are at least unlocked. Joe CVT explained that the CVT can be shifted out of park by inserting any key into the rectangular slot under a pop out cover near the front of the shift console, assuming that the car has a functional 12V battery, so that should let me push it around once I get some inflated tires on it.
This car is to be for demo only, will never be on the road, and could even end up with all components and harnesses on a roll around test stand.
We will need to get the car to run, so the immobilizer issue will somehow need to be resolved.
I put up a collage of photos of the car at:
http://www.99mpg.com/understandingdiagn/
So you can better see what I have to work with.
There is no way I can get this to the nearest dealor who is 25 miles away.
A look at my 2000 electrical service manual shows the Immobilizer reciever communicating with the ECM, and the result is a grounding of the cars fuel cut relay to enable fuel supply.
Is the key code stored in the ECM?
Could I swap ECM's at the dealors with mine for the purposes of key reprogramming with a new key, then swap back to drive home, but this is a CVT and mine is a MT, so it is probably not compatible ?
I have access to a Genesis and a Mastertec scan tool with software that can interface with the scan port, could that reprogram the ECM here?
I suppose I could just add an external ground for the fuel cut relay return as long as the ECM works otherwise?
Suggestions?
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Old 02-25-2007, 08:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
CVT can be shifted out of park by inserting any key into the rectangular slot under a pop out cover near the front of the shift console, assuming that the car has a functional 12V battery
Mike, the shift lock over ride is a mechanical linkage that allows you to pull the shifter out of P. No battery needed.
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Old 02-25-2007, 08:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks Lee,
that is even easier.
It seems I need to get a CVT Insight service manual ASAP.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I got a key made recently for my car (the stolen & recovered one) -- it took them over half an hour to program it, with some kind of computer hooked up to it and the car running the whole time (there goes my gas mileage)... so, I don't think there's any way to get the key made "remotely", if that's what you're trying to do. It might be worth it to just rent a car trailer and move the car that way (I guess you'd have to rent the tow car too, if you don't have a vehicle that can tow). Good luck!
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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flymuck,
Thanks for the feedback.
I should have the car here by Wed, I don't believe it can run, as the front has been smashed pretty bad, and the radiator looks like it was pushed in. How will they start it for programming without a key?
Three of the 4 tires are off the rims, so I suspect that the front end and possibily the rear as well have rolling issues, so a flatbed would be the only way to move it.
See photos on above link.
I have a lot of anxiety about the cars condition, but will have to wait until it is hand to fully determine the best path to take.
In Dec I bought a flood damaged Silver 2000 MT from the same auction, and was really lucky. The flood had not touched the IMA electronics, and the car started as soon as I replaced the 12V battery. The IMA charged right up, and everything works. I hope I am half as lucky on this one.

The fact that they were able to run your car during the reprogramming, I am assuming means that you either had another key, or they have a way to start it with the computer bypassing the issue of the lack of a programmed key??
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dabrowski 2000
Could I swap ECM's at the dealors with mine for the purposes of key reprogramming with a new key, then swap back to drive home, but this is a CVT and mine is a MT, so it is probably not compatible ?
AFAIK the swap is your only alternative vs a tow. And you are correct it may not be compatable, but AFAIK no harm or damge can be done in trying (I am out a bit on a limb in making this statement. The ETM should show connector incompatabilities e.g. +12v or grounds in different locations MT - CVT). Any you'll need a non chipped key to work the ignition and use the tape the heads together trick until the PCM's are swapped back.

And I am quite sure the only "scan tool" that can code the the key to the immobilizer is the Honda HDS. Maybe Craig's got some connections

If there is an immobilizer defeat I believe its internal to the PCM. And while I am quite sure your smart enough to figure out how, if you do PLEASE keep it confidential. We wouldn't want a hack available to defeat this anti-theft system.

HTH!
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