Truth be told I tore my new one installing it so I used my old one. Likely you tore yours as well when putting the axle shaft back in. Installing one I used the older seal with a piece of wood over it to tap it into place without damaging it... be very careful to not tear it when putting the axle in though.
No addtnl sealer or anything else needed. It was tapped in far enough to stop.
I just wanted to add to this discussion by giving a little more info on the Input Shaft Bearing versus the Throwout Bearing. If you have a bad throwout bearing it usually starts to make squealing noises if you push in the clutch pedal which is engaging the bearing. If you hear a noise when the clutch pedal is not pushed, a low growl. or whack-whack-whack in idle, and in 1-3 gears, this is the input shaft bearing. Now from what I understand, many people with newer Civics(I own a 2003) and obviously Insights, have had an issue with this bearing failing way too early. I have had my Civic since new and the first time I had a problem with the ISB was at 40K, eventually replaced under extended warranty around 58K miles. I have read that the bearing is just a bad design, but not sure if the aftermarket bearings have improved in quality over the Honda part. I have also found Honda is very hush-hush on wanting to admit that a lot of these manual in the 2001-2005 Civics have this issue. The gear box is actually quite stout except for the Input Shaft Bearing. Also, the reason you will not hear the noise in 4th or 5th gear is because that is on the counter shaft, which sits higher in the transmission and has a different bearing than on the mainshaft. Its a really easy fix except that you have to pull the transmission out, which is a pain that I have not yet go into, but will soon because I have to again replace the bad bearing. The transmission is rather simple, from looking at the manual and online pictures from others who fixed this problem on their own. Basically you pull out both shafts and the differential gear and your bearings are right there at the bottom of the case, pop them out, put everything back in, reseal the case, and take the time to change those pesky axle seals that go bad while the transmission is out. Again, the hard part is pulling the transmission. The first poster said it was easy, but they must have better tools then most of us.
Man, if you can do it in 45 mins, why does a fully stocked auto shop want 2 hours, each way? Also, if you can do the job in 4 hours, that is really good. The only thing that scares me about the job is getting those axles out. I might just have to rent an impact wrench, like you would use doing home construction, except the air wrenches are so much stronger.
I studied that and other sites prior to digging in. That one wasn't too much help as it differs a bit and didn't really show the things I wanted it to. The factory service manual details it step-step very well so there wasn't any surprises once I was inside.
"Why does a shop charge 2 each way"? Because they can. If that includes the replacement of the bearing then it is reasonable, is that is purely for tranny in/out then they are raping you, as most do. I don't have a nice shop but rather a usual garage with basic tools. I did have the luxury of that impact gun to remove the axle nuts (that is the ONLY time you need a special tool). I also had a 3/8" socket bit that fits into my Makita Electric drill that makes removing all those 10mm bolts SO easy. Remember this, it is highly likely that any shop you visit has never seen an Insight, let alone done a tranny so they are just like you - learning as they go but you'd be paying them $100+/hour. Why do shops charge $300-$500 for a 30K service when all it entails is changing the oil, checking fluids and tire pressures and maybe replace an air cleaner - total time is about 30 minutes at the most... because they can. It's called "fear factor" - if you are scared then they can charge a lot to alleviate your fears.
As for the axles, honestly that is likely the easiest part. All you do is put a large flat-blade screwdriver between the axle and the tranny and lightly pry it apart... there is nothing to it. To install them make sure they are the right length (revert back to my frustrating write-up where my pass side grew @1") - if one grows then hold it vertically and drop it @4-6" onto the floor and it will pop back together. If it's the right length then insert it gently back into your tranny them tap the end with a hammer and it will pop back in... nothing to it.
I responded to your bearing inquiry on the other page...
If you want more help you can either PM me or I can give you my phone number to help you through this if you want. I you happen to be in San Diego I'd be happy to lend a hand for beers!
Just wanted to correct a couple of things I had wrong in my last posts. I had stated that the 1st and 2nd gears were on the Mainshaft, this was wrong. They are actually on the countershaft. You will find the 3rd 4th and 5th synchros and gears on the Mainshaft. However, all the power comes from the mainshaft, through the ISB into the transmission. I actually had a shop pull the transmission and I did the teardown and repair myself. The ISB was toast and had actually seized a couple of times, but the force of the mainshaft kept it going. My Mainshaft bearing on the other side was also shot, making that horrible noise I described earlier, and just for fun I replaced the countershaft bearing, plus all the oil seals in the gearbox. Put the thing back together and it works well, although I am going to be switching to a full synthetic fluid such as Royal Purple Synchro because I am not happy with the Honda fluids shifting quality. Again this is from a Civic, not the Insight, but the job is not terribly hard.
Just wanted to correct a couple of things I had wrong in my last posts. I had stated that the 1st and 2nd gears were on the Mainshaft, this was wrong. They are actually on the countershaft. You will find the 3rd 4th and 5th synchros and gears on the Mainshaft. However, all the power comes from the mainshaft, through the ISB into the transmission. I actually had a shop pull the transmission and I did the teardown and repair myself. The ISB was toast and had actually seized a couple of times, but the force of the mainshaft kept it going. My Mainshaft bearing on the other side was also shot, making that horrible noise I described earlier, and just for fun I replaced the countershaft bearing, plus all the oil seals in the gearbox. Put the thing back together and it works well, although I am going to be switching to a full synthetic fluid such as Royal Purple Synchro because I am not happy with the Honda fluids shifting quality. Again this is from a Civic, not the Insight, but the job is not terribly hard.
the 1st and 2nd gear being on the countershaft... is that why the car always grinds into 2nd gear above 10 MPH? I was hoping my car always grinds into 2nd gear above 10 MPH because it had a bad syncro or anything.
Honestly, in comparison to other cars, an insight is not driver friendly around the city. Yuo basically need to be absolutley stopped if your driving anywhere from 1-8 MPH to get going again (otherwise it will be massive gear grinding to 1st or nearly killing it in 2nd). Also, if driving between 10-20 MPH its the same deal with 2nd and 3rd (massive gear grinding to 2nd, nearly killing it to 3rd).
Although... my car does have slightly larger front tires than stock so I shouldn't be whining too much about it.
I just got used to a hyundai accent (even with 15 inch tires no the front) where if you were rolling at all, getting going in 2nd gear was no problem. There was never any gear grinding either.
The reason of non city driver friendliness for the insight has made be conemplate selling it and going back to driving a hyundai accent, but with the gear grinding I was afraid that replacing the transmission was neccessary before sale.
My 2000 is having grinding issues when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd. Is there anyway someone can provide me with a list of items/parts I should take care while I have the transmission out? Also what are the part numbers/where to order the sychros?
You are not going to know all the parts you need until you take it apart and look at it. Sounds like you at least need second gear/synchro set. Sometimes the bearings are loose but usually they are not. I got my bearing separator on sale from Harbor Freight for something like $25. It will need longer bolts. Most people like Hondabond gasket sealer but list was about $20, probably more now, and the unopened shelf life is only a year.
I'll add that if you decide to go with Hondabond, test it first by laying down a short thin strip and let it dry 24 hours. If it cures soft and crumbly, don't use it. Keep your receipt
Last edited by JuiceMcGoose; 02-23-2010 at 10:26 AM.
the 1st and 2nd gear being on the countershaft... is that why the car always grinds into 2nd gear above 10 MPH? I was hoping my car always grinds into 2nd gear above 10 MPH because it had a bad syncro or anything.
Honestly, in comparison to other cars, an insight is not driver friendly around the city. Yuo basically need to be absolutley stopped if your driving anywhere from 1-8 MPH to get going again (otherwise it will be massive gear grinding to 1st or nearly killing it in 2nd). Also, if driving between 10-20 MPH its the same deal with 2nd and 3rd (massive gear grinding to 2nd, nearly killing it to 3rd).
Hi baboracus,
It could be that I'm doing things differently than you, but I just thought I 'd throw this out there as a point of reference. I have never had the grinding you seem to be describing. It blocks a downshift into 1st at low speed but below ~10 mph it "pops" in without grinding if I try to force it. I've never really forced it with more than firm pressure. Maybe it would grind if I forced it harder?
I totally agree that the downshifting shift points are annoying. It never "dies" for me while accelerating in 2nd because the IMA kicks in, but I sure don't get moving quickly. I don't remember ever having to force it from 3rd to 2nd, but maybe I've just not tried at the same shift point you have. The only time I've ever had grinding was when I clearly flubbed the clutch pedal (3 times in the last 170k miles, I think).
Just finished rebuilding my 01 transmission. Not too bad of a job but one thing kind of annoying about the service manual is about the shaft nut on the countershaft (where the two bearings are, 1 with clip grove) is left hand threads. There is no mention of this in the manual at all, I though I hadn't got the lock opened up properly as it would turn a 1/16 of a turn and stop. turning it back to open the lock up more was quite easy. After two times doing this I figured it out.
I replaced all the bearings and seals even though only the input shaft bearing was bad, also replaced 2nd gear assembly (including syncro's for 2nd and 1st.) Shifts great nice and smooth.
Steve, great tip on the removing the lower strut bolts way better than messing with the lower ball joint. Also for getting the clip back over the bearing (dropping the case gently on the bench and it pops right in place.
__________________
Ed Mc
2001 Insight 148k
My LMPG 66.3 since 01/29/2009
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