High beams not working

trinity02 · 08-31-2010, 12:10 AM

Recently helped my daughter buy an 02 Insight and just discovered the High Beams aren't working at all. When we push the turn signal lever forward, both headlights go off and no indicator lights up on the dash. I scanned the owners manual for a high beam fuse and couldn't find one. I can understand both high beams being burned out, but why no indicator light?

RobertSmalls · 08-31-2010, 06:58 AM

You mean pull the turn signal lever towards you? Hmm... I'd do a resistance check or a visual inspection on the bulb filaments, then test continuity across the switch while you operate it.

talonmike · 08-31-2010, 11:31 AM

If you are in Canada, it could be the DRL module. If not, it could be the switch.

joecvt · 08-31-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trinity02

Recently helped my daughter buy an 02 Insight and just discovered the High Beams aren't working at all. When we push the turn signal lever forward, both headlights go off and no indicator lights up on the dash. I scanned the owners manual for a high beam fuse and couldn't find one. I can understand both high beams being burned out, but why no indicator light?

There are headlight fuses but they are not your problem. The fuses are 8 and 10 (15A) under the hood fuse box. According to the electronic manual (not the owners manual), the same fuse is used for high and low beams. The reason for two fuses is one is for left and one is for right. There are also two headlight relays (left and right) but they do not control the switching of low or high beams either (same story as the fuses).

Your problem is in the headlight combination switch assembly or the Red/Blue wire (pin 4), Red/White wire (pin 6) that comes out of the assembly connector.

The combination assembly has three function areas:

1) Three position knob for - all lights off, parking lights, headlights and parking lights.

2) High / low beam switch

3) Flash to pass switch

Within the switch assembly, your problem is not function 1. Your problem is either number 2 or 3 or the Red/Blue, Red/White wire that comes from the assembly connector.

You have not mentioned if you tried the flash to pass portion of the switch, if that part works, it can be narrowed down even further to number 2 function or the Red/White wire coming from the connector.

The reason why I mention the wires is because there was a recall on earlier model Insights due to headlight wires melting (wrong size or type of wire used).

The electrical manual clearly pinpoints your trouble to faulty wiring or bad combination switch. It is not the fuses or relays based on the electrical design and the fact that you say your low beams work. In this design, the positive wire is shared for high and low beams and that is the wire that goes both fuses and relays. The ground wire is toggled via the switch assembly and activates the indicator light. Since low beams work, it can not be the fuses or relays since they are shared.

Hopefully that steers you in the right direction.

Try the flash to pass switch though.

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner

joecvt · 08-31-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talonmike

If you are in Canada, it could be the DRL module. If not, it could be the switch.

Yes, I should mention that all of my earlier comments are based on a US model without Daytime Running Lights.

According to the electrical manual, the DRL module is in between the combination switch assembly and the headlights so still not the 8 and 10 fuses or the relays that I mentioned earlier but the ground portion wires from the combination switch do not go directly to the lightbulbs like the US model, they go through a DRL module / control until for Canada models. There are also a couple of additional realys involved with the DRL ....

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner

trinity02 · 08-31-2010, 09:00 PM

Thanks for the tips. The "flash" function doesn't work either. In fact, if I "flash" with the low beams on, they go off. I'll look at the wiring. We're in North Carolina and are the third owner of the car. Don't think it has DRL. Do you know if Honda would still replace the wiring under the recall?

joecvt · 08-31-2010, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trinity02

Thanks for the tips. The "flash" function doesn't work either. In fact, if I "flash" with the low beams on, they go off. I'll look at the wiring. We're in North Carolina and are the third owner of the car. Don't think it has DRL. Do you know if Honda would still replace the wiring under the recall?

Now it gets a bit more confusing if this is a US model (non-DRL) Insight. According to the schematic in the electrical manual, I see nothing that would cause the low beams to go out during a flash to pass. The flash to pass switch portion only applies ground to the high beams and the indicator on the dash. Once the low beams are turned on, the ground going to the low beams is not interrupted during a flash to pass.

However, Canadian models have other relays controlled by the DRL controller. One of these relays is called "Low Beam Cut Relay".

I wonder if you have a Canadian model that someone may have tried to disable the DRL?......It should be easy to tell by looking at your instrument cluster. If you look at the owners manual (you seem to have one), they will visually look different between US and Canadian models.

If you look at the section called Indicator lights (just after the diagram of the gauge assembly), you will see that some indicator lights will look different and they will say US or Canada above the symbol. Ones that appear different are:
Parking Brake
ABS

DRL will be an additional indicator on Canadian models. The best bet would be to pull up on your parking brake and see what symbol it shows on the cluster and compare it to the owners manual. If it just displays the word BRAKE then it is a US model. If it has a symbol of what looks like brake shoes around the brake drum with an ! inside, it is a Canadian model.

It is interesting that under the DRL description it notes that "This indicator lights when you turn the ignition switch to ON (II) with the headlight switch off and the parking brake set. It should go off if you turn on the headlights or release the parking brake. If it comes on at any other time, it means there is a problem with the DRL. There may also be a problem with the high beam headlights."

If it is a US model, you can ask about the recall to Honda but it may be a time has elapsed type thing or it may have already been done. But from what you just described about the flash to pass, it may not be a wire issue since you say the low beams go out during the flash to pass.

Hope that helps,

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner

trinity02 · 09-01-2010, 12:05 AM

Thanks for more good tips. I'll have to check the the BRAKE indicator light to verify US or CANADA model the next time my daughter is home long enough (she has a dorm room at a local college but comes home on a regular basis). The owners manual I have is one I downloaded from Honda's website. The car is actually a rebuilt salvage (NOT fire or flood; driver door and front panel having to be replaced were enough to "total" the car).

EDIT:
No sooner had I posted this than my daughter walked in the door.
The mystery deepens. According to your post and the owners manual, this is a US model because of the BRAKE and ABS indicators. To make sure I wasn't loosing my mind, I rechecked the "flash" function and the low beams are definitely going off when the Hi Beams are flashed on turned on.

joecvt · 09-01-2010, 03:11 PM

Just to make sure we got our terms straight, Assuming the low beam headlights are already turned on with the knob at the end of the switch:

A flash to pass is sitting in the driver's seat and pulling the combination light switch lever towards you (to the back of the car) and then releasing with the lever automatically going back to the center position. While pulling towards you, the low beams should stay on and the high beams will activate as well until you let go of the lever. The low beams should not turn off during this action.

Turning on the high beams while sitting in the driver's seat is done by pushing the combination light switch lever away from you (towards the front of the car). The lever should stay in that position even when you let go of the lever. This actions turns off the low beams and turns on the high beams. In order to turn off the high beams to go back to low beams, you have to pull the lever back towards the center (resting position).

If you agree that you have tried the actions that I just described and low beams go off when you do a flash to pass then the only thing that can be wrong is the combination switch is defective. Like I mentioned earlier, the combo switch is really three switches built-in. The high-low dimmer switch portion should not be affected by a flash to pass when the low beams were on. The combo switch has a common ground going to all three internal switches. It seems like your movement of the lever breaks this ground causing the other functions to turn off / not work.

I would look for a replacement combination switch. You can get a new one online from Majestic Honda for $59.84 (plus shipping):

Honda Automotive Parts

Item number 10 (same part number for MT and CVT models)

The recall I mentioned earlier is for 00-02 Insights BUT it seems to affect low beams.

I think that it is the switch or a ground loose in the switch.

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner

trinity02 · 09-01-2010, 04:19 PM

Your description of the actions is accurate. A bad switch makes sense. I pulled one of the lamps and didn't see any broken filaments. That the low beams shouldn't go off (but they are) and the indicator isn't coming on leads me to agree with you about the switch.

Sounds like you have a good repair/electrical manual. Where's a good source for one of those?

Thanks