IMA weirdness

[scraple62]

You guys may remember my post of 7-30-11 "IMA light". Short synopsis:
Battery level gauge went from full to one bar in a few seconds and IMA light came on.
Dealer said code was P0A7F "Battery module deterioration"
Charging system quit working altogether- I only had the IMA light and neither the charge nor the assist showed any activity when driving at all.
Originally had one bar left on the Battery level gauge and that eventually disappeared.
Dealer said OK to drive the car w/o IMA working.
Have been driving about 50 miles a day at least 4 days a week fairly level, only a couple of areas of hill or slope for about a mile or so on the commute. Avg speed 58mph.
Mileage has deteriorated from about 60MPG to around 55MPG.
I NEVER got a battery light! (Ignition battery)
Possible contributing factors: Extreme heat July and August- temps 95 plus daily for almost two months straight, at least three weeks of that we were close to or at 100 (a few times over). We are now in the low 90's and have had a few upper 80's daytime highs.
Mice- they were greeting me (literally sitting up and looking at me) when I came home a few times. I was parking under the barn b/c of shade. They did once try to build a nest in my climate (A/C- heater) motor. I began parking in what I hope is a safer area where there is not much mouse cover/habitat.
Yesterday, car did not start on the first try. Occasionally, I will turn the key and get a dash full of lights and nothing else. Usually on the second try it fires up perfect, so I always wondered--clutch pressed incompletely on first try or something?
On second try it started, but battery sounded sluggish. Started it three more times yesterday with the same result, started, but sounded very sluggish.
Today I took it to my man Darrel at the local parts store and had him read the codes and check battery. P0A7F again and battery(ignition battery under hood) no good. He replaced the battery for me.
Left the lot and EUREKA the charging indicator lit up and IMA light was gone. The IMA system had fully charged by the time I drove a couple of miles or so (faster than I ever remember it doing) and the assist was working again.
Went back to Darrel and said code me baby!! No codes. I also bought my own scan gauge so I won't have to bother him so much.
Guys- especially Hybrid-Battery Repair man, is this going to be a temporary condition that will probably revert back to the code soon? I need some guidance and as always thanks for your help!!!!

[Eli]

The codes were re-set when you replaced the 12V battery.

It will come back, but you can try and mitigate it by driving in manners that avoid using assist.

The IMA system charging fast isn't a good sign, it indicates a positive recal happened.

[scraple62]

Thanks Eli, I agree with you about the speed of the charging. I didn't think it was a good sign either. I am wondering if I could salvage things somewhat by doing the grid charging I've heard you all talk about. Also, could the failure of my ignition battery be caused by the IMA problem even though I never got a battery light? I remember a mention in a post about not getting over four thousand RPM because it could cause problems. It's possible I could have done that because of having to downshift into third to go up one of the larger hills in this area (I don't always go that route, but have once or twice since the IMA problem began). I have a class tonight that doesn't end until 9PM, so I'd have to use lights and I'm concerned about a possible electrical problem leaving me on the side of the road in the dark.

[Eli]

You could probably drive the car OK with a daily, weekly or monthly grid charge, yes. Just depends on how degraded your battery is. It will eventually completely fail though.

Unlikely. The Insight doesn't take very good care of the 12V battery overall. It was probably just it's time. If it's starting with the 12V starter, a weak 12V will become apparent. Normally since our cars start with the IMA motor, the 12V battery can be on it's death bed and you wouldn't know it.

The 3,500RPM limit isn't really a big deal. The 12V battery light will come on if you're above it, but should go off again within 30 seconds to a minute once the RPMs drop below that point.

[scraple62]

Thank you again Eli, You are right about the battery being on it's death bed and not knowing it--if the IMA is working properly. I bought the car second hand and evidently it had four wheeler/lawnmower 12volt battery in it. I did notice that the battery was smaller than the battery box, but I never paid much attention to that. I'd had the car more than a year when I started having problems with the battery going dead because I forgot to cut off the interior light when sitting in the car with the door open between classes. However, after a two hour or more class, the battery would usually have sat long enough to actually start the car (even though it would only click and not even turn over before I went to class). It happened again when I was in traffic waiting on construction hold up and forgot about auto stop!! Key had been on the whole time and battery was dead. When I made it to the parts house (after sitting on the shoulder for about and hour when it regenerated enough to crank) my man Darrel (he's been through alot with me and this car) died laughing and said that I had a moped/fourwheeler/lawnmower type battery and no wonder it died. The battery that I just replaced was that same one that Darrel put in Sept. of 09. As for the RPM, I must not have gone over that 3,500 because I've never had the battery light come on, unless I have a malfunctioning battery light, which I'm beginning to wonder about because I would think it should have come on very recently when the battery was so weak--basically dying and my IMA was nonfunctional.

[gilbertguy]

My IMA threw a code about a month ago, it was showing 1-2 bars on the battery for a long time. Drove it with no assist and no regen for a month with no issues even going over 4K RPMs there would be no RED 12V battery light. After a month I noticed the IMA battery went to no bars and then I began to get the RED 12V battery light if I went over 4K, it would go away shortly after RPM's came back down or if it was turned off and restarted. Shortly after this it completely died, dash lights on until I turned key and everything goes dim. Pulled the 12V battery and confirmed it was dead, replaced and it is back to running around again no issues, suprised me how fast it went from "okay" to "dead".

[Eli]

I suppose the battery light being burned out is something to look into, but generally once the battery light comes on(and stays on), you don't have long before the battery dies, certainly not more than a couple of hours. It seems the car draws about 10A with the headlights and all accessories off. That jumps up to ~25A when the radiator fan comes on, and 40A with the headlights and radiator fan on.

You can check to see if it comes on when you first key on before starting.

Also, your weird dash lighting up like a christmas tree problem could be ground strap related. Probably would be a good idea to go over them all, including the negative battery terminal to chassis strap. They can corrode from the inside out and it's difficult to tell just from a quick visual inspection.

[scraple62]

Gilbert- I was surprised how fast it went out too, literally here (fine) today and gone (DEAD) tomorrow. Hopefully it'll keep going for a while now, until I'm able to get a grid charger. I'm worried about how the hurricane is going to affect our Hybrid-Battery Repair friend in New York--they're forecast to take a big hit.

Eli-Earlier today was reading another post about IMA problems and you guys were discussing the ground strap issue. I actually went out and took a look at mine right after reading the post and it looks like that's something I'm going to have to address also. There is definitely some green coloring to the copper in the wires, but like you said, it could be worse under the shrink tubing.

Thanks again to all of you guys for your help and advice. This website is a lifesaver and you guys make it top notch with your generosity of information!!

[Eli]

I'd just go ahead and replace them for peace of mind. They're cheap, especially if you make your own.

A ground strap problem could very well be the reason for your new(in '09) battery only lasted a couple of years.

[scraple62]

Eli, I am with you on that! It is at the top of my to do ASAP list. Thanks!