Thinking about buying a 2002 with IMA/CEL/Brake/Battery Lights

Wade.Moeller · 10-15-2011, 10:52 PM

I've found a 2002 Insight with the IMA, Check Engine, Brake and Battery lights lit. It shows 132k miles. The dealer didn't have an OBDII scanner so I took for a test drive down the road to an Autozone and had it scanned. Code P1449, P1568, and P1576 were reported. I didn't know I should have pulled the blink code as well.

So from what I've read poking around the forum today, the battery pack needs rebuilding and the MCM may not be charging the 12v battery. I didn't really drive it around much beyond around the block to Autozone, so I don't know if any of those lights would have gone out with a decent trip.

I've never driven a CVT or hybrid so I'm not sure if it felt right. When accelerating from a stop it seemed to hesitate a bit but then woke up and got a move on. No other odd noises, no smoke apparent, brakes seemed fine and the steering was light. When I did do a brake check for alignment on the back street, it seemed like the regen/braking was kind of sticky. It appeared to be under braking for a moment once I let off the brake.

I'm fairly handy with a wrench and multimeter, so I'm not too worried about working on it. I am worried about the cost of parts.

I should be OK paying about 3k for this? That's what the dealer says they paid for it and it looks to have gone through an auto auction to get to them so that should be truthful. Adding in $1000 for a "new" IMA battery would still leave me under the book values making it an OK deal.

It would still fit within the extended 10/150k warranty, but I would be about the 5th owner judging by the number of title entries on an AutoCheck. Should it still be covered? I figure there would be much discussion with the dealer in any case, but I'm not sure if the extension is transferable. If so, the cost would just be my time and it's a great deal.

Or do all the lights mean it's a basket case and I'll just be lucky to get it the 25 miles to home?

gilbertguy · 10-15-2011, 11:45 PM

Sounds like to me all the codes are IMA battery related. Also it doesn't matter how many owners there have been, it should still be under warranty at least for a little bit longer until you go over the 10 year mark. Make sure it is not a salvage title, Honda will not cover the warranty if it is a salvage title.

If the IMA has been dead for awhile the 12V battery may be weak or near death, these cars are notorious for the 12V batteries getting weak but you don't realize it because the IMA battery masks the issue.

If they really only want 3,000 for this car and the battery is under warranty then this is a hell of a steal.

Willie Williford · 10-15-2011, 11:49 PM

Buy it. Brake light on probably means your 12V battery is on it's last leg. Check ground straps. Car can be driven with those codes.
IMA battery problems can be rectified with a "BetterBattery".
If everything else checks out, you will have a very good car for around 5K.
What was the LMPG showing?
HTH
Willie

02insight · 10-15-2011, 11:50 PM

take the vin number and ask a honda dealer to see if the battery is still under warranty. (make sure its not salvage though)

If it is, immediately buy it, and dont tell the dealer you are buying from that the battery is under warranty, otherwise they will just get the batt replaced for free, and then adjust the price.

but even if not under warranty, still a good deal for 3k, You can disconnect the BCM under the IMA box, and drive it as a gas car, and it will keep the 12v charged.

Eli · 10-16-2011, 12:17 AM

If a CVT is really what you want, buy it. Unless it's salvage, it should still be under warranty.

Wade.Moeller · 10-17-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade.Moeller

I've found a 2002 Insight with the IMA, Check Engine, Brake and Battery lights lit. It shows 132k miles. The dealer didn't have an OBDII scanner so I took for a test drive down the road to an Autozone and had it scanned. Code P1449, P1568, and P1576 were reported. I didn't know I should have pulled the blink code as well.

Completed the purchase today. $3100 out the door. Earlier in the day I called the local Honda dealership and they said they couldn't see any reason to disqualify the car from the IMA warranties and an in-service date of 10/16/2002. So the 10 years ends in just at 1 year from today, right? The AutoCheck I ran via eBay only showed 2 owners and no title anomalies. It also looks like this car has been hanging around dealer lots for the last 2 years as it has only racked up ~1000 miles since July 2009. Should be fairly straight forward on the claim, once they know I know.

While waiting around for the salesman and paperwork, I took a look at the ground straps and 12v battery voltage. I've seen pictures showing 2 straps going from the inner fender mount, but I only saw one on this one and it was going to the top of the transaxle mount next to the airbox. Did the 2002 have 1 or 2?

The 12v on the battery was 12.2v and it's an Interstate. Should be in OK condition. No one marked the install date on the label 'tho. I haven't had a chance to check the running voltage because I ran into a sandstorm on the way home and I don't have a garage. (Midland TX, if you were curious.)

The ride home was fairly uneventful until about 20 miles into the 30 mile trip. The center of the dash went dark. Just the tach and the fuel/batt gauges were lit. I did a flying restart (Shift to N, turn key off, turn back on and restart the motor) and the cluster came back fine, but the Brake and 12v Battery light were both out now. Just the IMA and the Check Engine lights were lit. This was change was probably due it actually being driven and then restarted, right? Or will those two lights return in the morning when I head out to AMT school in the morning?

I have the instructions to recharge the IMA battery. I'm not sure if I want to do that now, or hit up the dealer first. Will the codes (P1449, P1568, and P1576) clear themselves when you do that or do they have to be cleared manually?

Wade.Moeller · 10-17-2011, 10:52 PM

Oh, and the LMPG is ~35. I reset the trip in the dealer lot and was showing ~43 for the 30 miles trip home.

Eli · 10-17-2011, 11:13 PM

You are missing a ground strap. Replace all of them, it will fix your weird dash anomalies and such.

Do NOT clear the codes, do NOT charge the battery or perform a reset. The codes must be present for warranty work. Take it to the dealership immediately for your free battery.

Wade.Moeller · 10-18-2011, 05:36 PM

When I went to start it today at lunch to show off my new ride, the 12v start drug a bit. I checked the 12v battery voltage and it was 1 volt lower then yesterday. So I checked the voltage with the engine running and it was about the same which means there was no power going from the 144v system back to the 12v system. Worried about the battery failing to start the car or get me back into town, I took the battery into school and put it on the charger. After I put it back in, the same lights were still on. After school I drove it to the dealer and when they turned it on to pull up the odometer, the only light left on was the Check Engine light.

They weren't able to check it out tonight, so I drove it home and the Charge bars showed up. After the IMA power level came up a bit, the Auto Stop and Assist started working. After driving it about 10 miles home, the IMA charge is now about up to 33%. The check engine light is still on and the 1449 and 1568 codes still come up on Autozone's scanner.

I guess I don't get a free battery yet, that's a negative. I won't have to spend time with Honda now, that's a plus. I still have 1 year/20k miles for the battery to give out on me and I'll still be under the warranty. If it keeps working fine for that long, I'll just have to deal with getting a BetterBattery instead of an OEM NOS battery.

And now my story ends with me getting a car at 50%+ off because the dealer didn't bother to charge a 5 month old (by shipping date code) 12v battery and putter around town to keep his wares in working order. That's a bit more entertaining then them not knowing about the warranty.

E27006 · 10-19-2011, 05:24 AM

The 12V starter motor never seems to have much oomph, but then it only there as a backup to the IMA starting system.

The DC -DC charger does seem to regulate the 12v battery to about 12.2volts, somewhat lower than an alternator charging system.

Disconnection of the 12V battery resets the electronics modules, thereby erasing the stored fault codes until the next occurence, those codes are the evidence the dealer requires to replace the pack etc under Honda warranty terms.

The advice to sort out the ground straps and 12V battery is an imperative, if the car has stood for a couple of years with only about a thousand miles in that time, another bout of IMA errors may expected soon, so take it to the dealer when that happens, in the meantime also ask the dealer if the records show if the pack has been replaced.

I think you have acquired a bargain! Welcome to the club.