Questions about 2nd gear syncro problem

[insightbuyer]

I have what seems to be the common second gear syncro problem, when going from 3rd to 2nd, I get a pretty loud grinding noise.

Since I do not have the time to fix this just yet, I was wondering the best way to deal with it.

It really makes downshifting into 2nd really scary, as the grind is pretty loud.

I notice if that I put my car into 1st, before 2nd, I will not get a grind. Of course while keeping the clutch always pressed down. I was wondering if anyone else does this and if its OK to do this? So for example if i'm in 3rd, I would press clutch, put it in 1st, and then quickly into 2nd, then release clutch. No grind.

Should I just throw the car into 2nd, even with this loud grind? Or will I really be killing the tranny fast, and it is not worth it?

How do you guys with this problem deal with it?

[aisbell]

Originally Posted by insightbuyer

I notice if that I put my car into 1st, before 2nd, I will not get a grind.

This will likely wear out the first gear synchronizer prematurely.

Originally Posted by insightbuyer

How do you guys with this problem deal with it?

By double-clutching. In fact, even before the synchronizers wear out, double-clutching, especially when downshifting, will extend the life of the synchronizers. So this is the solution.

[insightbuyer]

Could you explain this double clutching to me and how it is done in an insight, when downshifting into 2nd?

Thanks

[Eli]

Double clutching is done the same way in the Insight as it is in any car or truck.

Since I already revmatch, I just release the clutch a second time after the revmatch. Technically, with a true double clutch, you blip the throttle while the clutch is released and the car is in neutral.

If I can ever get the video logging setup I plan on showing how I do it to help others.

1) clutch in
2) Shift to neutral
3) Blip throttle to appropriate RPM
4) clutch out
5) clutch in
6) shift to 2nd grind free
7) clutch out

Obviously this takes some practice.... It's supposed to be one fluid, smooth, fast movement.

Again that's just the way I do it, real double clutching is slightly different. I suggest looking on Youtube.

[insightbuyer]

Could you explain how I determine the correct RPM.

Also, why the clutch out and clutch in together in step 4&5, could I not put it in Neutral, clutch out, rev RPM, clutch in

[Eli]

Originally Posted by insightbuyer

Could you explain how I determine the correct RPM.

Also, why the clutch out and clutch in together in step 4&5, could I not put it in Neutral, clutch out, rev RPM, clutch in

The correct RPM is the RPM that you would be at in the desired gear at your current speed. As an example, if you're going 40MPH in 3rd and you need to shift into 2nd, you need to rev the engine to the RPM that it would be if you were going 40MPH in 2nd.

With experience, you do it by sound. You don't need to look at the tachometer, you just know how much to blip the throttle.

Yes, that's how you do it. Sorry, lol.

Double clutch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Traditional Double Clutch:

1) Clutch in
2) Neutral
3) Clutch out
4) Rev
5) Clutch in
6) Shift
7) Clutch Out


The way I do it:

1) Clutch in
2) Neutral
3) Rev
4) Clutch out
5) Clutch in
6) Shift to 2nd
7) Clutch out

Same thing, just a slightly different sequence. The reason I learned like this is because like I said I've been revmatching for a long time, which involves the first three steps of my method. This makes downshifting smooth, but the synchronizers still have to be doing their job. If they're not, you also have to revmatch the transmission's internal shaft, which is what the additional clutch cycle does in either case.

[insightbuyer]

THanks for information. One small question, when I rev the engine to proper RPM, should I hold the gas pedal and stay at that RPM, or should I release the gas pedal then continue the steps?

[Eli]

Remember this all happens in less than 1 second - ideally. You don't hold the throttle, you just blip it

You Tube

You Tube

Watch the first ten seconds over and over until you get a good feeling for it. Text makes it seem much more notchy and complicated than it is.

[insightbuyer]

This worked nicely. I thought you would have to match the RPM exactly or get a bit of a grind, but as long as you just mash the pedal pretty deep and make those RPM's jump it goes into gear without any grind.

Maybe the syncros still work a bit where you don't need an exact RPM match, just get it up to speed.

[Eli]

Exact will be the smoothest, but depending on how bad the grind is, being a couple hundred RPM off is fine. Sometimes you can feel a single notch as the gear goes in, rather than the BRRRRAAP of an unsynchronized shift, but no big deal.