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Old 10-26-2011, 04:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default IMA light, P1447, 1449 now dead 12V

My saga continues but after reading some posts and wondering if I have more than an IMA battery issue, or maybe something else all together on my 2000 M/T Insight.

IMA light came on, code was 1447, continued driving w BCM still connected. 10 days later got the check engine light, additional code 1449 (assumed bad IMA battery). BUt 30 miles later I parked the car. 3 days later tried to starting it and even the remote entry will not
make a sound. The 12V is only about a year old.
Perhaps I misread but thought I should be able to drive further without having to disconnect the BCM.

Could the 12V be the culprit here, and could a bad 12V result in the above codes?
What about grounding issues?
If I jump the 12V is there anything to do differently from jumping a non-hybrid?

Also worth mentioning, I noticed the dashboard light in the vicinity of the A/C turn on switch to be intermittent, mostly off for the last several months. Also, always a slight electric shock touching someone outside the car (ie to pay a parking garage fee). I never connected this with the IMA battery but now wonder.

Would appreciate your feedback.

Kathie
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The fact that the car was parked when the 12V battery died means it likely has nothing to do with the car's systems.

However, if the 12V battery light was on at any point before you parked it, that could have been a contributing factor to the 12V dying while sitting.

Jumping is the same as it is for any car. A bad 12V battery will not cause those codes.

Not sure on the climate control lights. Maybe a bad connection in the dash?

The shocks are just static electricity.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks. I guess my point was that it should not have died after only several days and therefore maybe already in a weakened state when I parked it, but not bad enough for the red battery light to come on. I thought maybe driving with the IMA light on (but with BCM still connected) could have drawn power from the 12V.
After the IMA light came on I remember the dashboard lights dimming and brightening.

Is there ANYTHING else that code result in those codes besides a faulty IMA battery?
Faulty ground wire??
Dealer insists the BCM/MCM could be bad... although no other codes came on.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes, I agree, it shouldn't have. The Insight is notorious for maintaining the 12V battery at a low state of charge though. Also possible that you left the dome light on or something? Have you experienced a cold snap? That can also kill a weak 12V battery.

The 12V battery light will only come on if the DC-DC converter is not working. Seeing the dimming and brightening dash lights is the DC-DC operating, but the fact that they're noticeably dim when the DC-DC isn't on means that your 12V was probably pretty weak. The only time the car will operate exclusively from the 12V battery is if the red 12V battery light on the dash is illuminated.

No. There is nothing else that will cause those codes. Look on the bright side, your 12V battery dying has performed a reset on your systems. Enjoy the IMA-light-free driving until the problem pops up again. If you drive very conservatively, you may be able to stave the IMA light off for a couple of months..depending on how deteriorated your battery is.

The dealership is full of it, DO NOT replace your BCM and MCM. Unbelievable... It really makes me angry that they do that to people. It's like saying you need a new ECM because your check engine light is on.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Is the 12V still charging with a bad IMA battery still connected? I thought that was why the BCM should be disconnected... to be able to run off the 12V alone and prevent the red battery light from coming on. Someone please help me out here.

If I do want to bypass the IMA do I need to by a bypass board?

So 1447/1449 always mean the battery needs to be replaced? Thought I read somewhere it could be a ground wire problem??
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The only time the 12V isn't charging is if the red 12V battery light on the dashboard is on.

If the IMA battery deteriorates to the point where the computers will not allow the DC-DC to run, then you need to disconnect the BCM. You know this has happened when the aforementioned red 12V battery symbol illuminates and stays illuminated even at low RPM. This does not happen immediately upon setting P1447/P1449 codes. Most people can drive for at least another ~8mo+ before the DC-DC is shut down.

If you want to disconnect the BCM preemptively, you can do so.

Ground straps can cause any number of issues, but P1447/P1449 shouldn't be amongst them. These codes arise when very specific conditions are met. If the computers weren't able to analyze said conditions properly, you would have other codes.

But like I said, it never hurts to check the ground straps. Just make sure they aren't broken or corroded and you should be good to go.

You only need a junction board("bypass board") if you wish to drive the car after physically removing the battery, like if you want to send it in for repair. You don't need to buy one though, the junction board is on your battery.
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2000 MT Insight @ 250k; 2001 MT Insight @ 475k; 2001 MT Insight @ 160k; 2001 MT Insight @ 201k; 2003 MT HCH @ 160k; 2006 CVT HCH2 @ 205k; 2007 CVT FEH @ 210k.

Last edited by Eli; 10-27-2011 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Exclamation IMA light, 1447, CEL, broken ground straps, dead 12V

Quote:
Originally Posted by redracer View Post
My saga continues but after reading some posts and wondering if I have more than an IMA battery issue, or maybe something else all together on my 2000 M/T Insight.

IMA light came on, code was 1447, continued driving w BCM still connected. 10 days later got the check engine light, additional code 1449 (assumed bad IMA battery). BUt 30 miles later I parked the car. 3 days later tried to starting it and even the remote entry will not
make a sound. The 12V is only about a year old.
Perhaps I misread but thought I should be able to drive further without having to disconnect the BCM.

Could the 12V be the culprit here, and could a bad 12V result in the above codes?
What about grounding issues?
If I jump the 12V is there anything to do differently from jumping a non-hybrid?

Also worth mentioning, I noticed the dashboard light in the vicinity of the A/C turn on switch to be intermittent, mostly off for the last several months. Also, always a slight electric shock touching someone outside the car (ie to pay a parking garage fee). I never connected this with the IMA battery but now wonder.

Would appreciate your feedback.

Kathie
Jump started the car and the IMA and check engine lights reset. The IMA light came back on after driving 10 miles, but check engine light came back on immediately. Had the battery checked at a nearby mechanic and found the 12V is not functioning correctly, but one of the ground straps is not attached and totally severed.

Could the bad 12V and unattached ground strap cause the IMA light/1447 code to come on and is it possible the IMA battery is not bad?

I actually noticed the severed ground strap a year ago but did not know what it was. No mechanic suggested fixing it.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have some info to share.

About two months ago my Insight IMA performance started deteriorating quickly. Within the space of a few hundred miles it went from occasionally doing something annoying to having no assist AND what seemed like constant background charging which, when it happened, actually made me a hazard on the roads because i was obstructing traffic whenever i had to go up a hill. I was on a road trip and had to keep going, but i got home.

So my IMA light was on and i had no IMA function. Checked the codes and had 1447 and 1449. Within a few days i lost my 12v charging and had to stop driving it.

I took the battery pack out, took it apart, and tested and charged every battery string. I did not find a single bad cell. They were just very out of balance.

I put it back together, drove about 5 miles getting inconsistent amounts of assist, and then the IMA light came back on. I havent had access to a scanner to check it yet (only been 2 days).

So i would say 2 things: 1. 1447 & 1449 does not necessarily mean your batteries are bad. None of mine are. and 2. It follows that other things besides bad batteries can set 1447 and 1449.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
I have some info to share.

About two months ago my Insight IMA performance started deteriorating quickly. Within the space of a few hundred miles it went from occasionally doing something annoying to having no assist AND what seemed like constant background charging which, when it happened, actually made me a hazard on the roads because i was obstructing traffic whenever i had to go up a hill. I was on a road trip and had to keep going, but i got home.

So my IMA light was on and i had no IMA function. Checked the codes and had 1447 and 1449. Within a few days i lost my 12v charging and had to stop driving it.

I took the battery pack out, took it apart, and tested and charged every battery string. I did not find a single bad cell. They were just very out of balance.

I put it back together, drove about 5 miles getting inconsistent amounts of assist, and then the IMA light came back on. I havent had access to a scanner to check it yet (only been 2 days).

So i would say 2 things: 1. 1447 & 1449 does not necessarily mean your batteries are bad. None of mine are. and 2. It follows that other things besides bad batteries can set 1447 and 1449.
With all due respect, your post makes no sense and you are going to do nothig but confuse the issue for this poor woman.

If your IMA light came back after you rebalanced the pack, you most certainly have bad cells/sticks. At what amperage rate did you perform your tests? Ron has said time and time again that he can show sticks that seem fine at low amperage discharges but take a crap at high rates of discharge. Remember that our cars can charge at up to 50A and discharge at over 90A.

P1447-77 and P1449-78 are set under very specific conditions. There is nothing else that will set these DTCs.

It seems to me that high internal resistance is the cause of failure of a lot of packs. That seems to be the case with the deteriorated pack in Insight #3. The high internal resistance of the cells causes voltage to climb abnormally, throwing the IMA light.

If I charge the pack in #3 at less than 6A, it will charge readily, nearly to the top, without throwing an IMA light. If I charge the pack at 12-16A+, the systems see the abnormal voltage spike and the IMA light is thrown.
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2000 MT Insight @ 250k; 2001 MT Insight @ 475k; 2001 MT Insight @ 160k; 2001 MT Insight @ 201k; 2003 MT HCH @ 160k; 2006 CVT HCH2 @ 205k; 2007 CVT FEH @ 210k.

Last edited by Eli; 11-07-2011 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I am not contesting the conditions that produce the codes. I am only saying that just because you have the codes does not mean your batteries are necessarily bad. In other words, i am only saying the same thing that everyone who says 'try a grid charger' has said without raising any ire.

I dont know what codes i currently have set. I will check it soon. It is possible that the same codes have set, but i think it is also possible that some other code has set which will trip the IMA light.

Internal resistance across the entire pack cant tell you anything unless you know that the pack is perfectly in balance, because the resistance across each cell is relative to its state of charge. The highest resistance is from a cell that is fully charged.

Last edited by Vigo; 11-07-2011 at 02:31 PM.
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