Code P1447 & 1449: Options?

[Chosen_One]

Hey all, I've owned my Insight for almost exactly one year. Purchased at 136K miles, and is now currently at 157K, most of which have been trouble-free miles, until now....

I had receipts stating that the battery, BCM, and MCM were replaced under dealer warranty from the previous owner, which gave me some confidence to purchase the car.

For the past 2 months or so, my IMA light has been on. No problems with regen, assist or charging.

Today, I noticed when driving that regen was being forced when the battery charge was at about half. After the battery was completely charged, I found that regen, charge, and assist did not occur. IMA light disappeared and CEL came on.

Brought it to Adv Auto and they pulled codes 1447 and 1449. This seems to be indicative of a failing battery pack.

I am tempted to bring it to a trusted dealer but they are charging me $90 for a diagnostic fee. From the other threads here, seems they are going to charge several thousand to repair/replace the pack.

Mind you this is my daily driver...

Seems that I have the following options:
- bring to dealer and have them replace (~$2000)
- send battery pack to Hybrid Repair (~$1000) + 3-4 wk downtime
- new better battery pack (~$1800) + 4-6 wk downtime
- bypass battery completely by disconnecting BCM connectors

What else can I do?

How long can I get away with disconnecting the BCM to completely bypass the battery?

Can I still drive the car with the battery pack completely removed?

Winter time is right around the corner...

[aisbell]

Originally Posted by Chosen_One

- bring to dealer and have them replace (~$2000)

It seems that Honda's battery packs are getting quite old now which might explain why they seem to be failing sooner. This would not be my first choice.

Originally Posted by Chosen_One

- send battery pack to Hybrid Repair (~$1000) + 3-4 wk downtime

The downtime shouldn't be a serious problem. But you'd end up with a rebuilt battery pack containing old cells. This would not be my first choice.

Originally Posted by Chosen_One

- new better battery pack (~$1800) + 4-6 wk downtime

This would be my first choice because you'd end up with a battery pack that has the longest expected life expectancy and with better performance.

Originally Posted by Chosen_One

- bypass battery completely by disconnecting BCM connectors

This would be my last choice because I would not want to drive an Insight forever without a functional IMA system.

Originally Posted by Chosen_One

How long can I get away with disconnecting the BCM to completely bypass the battery?

Can I still drive the car with the battery pack completely removed?

You could drive your car as long as you'd like with the BCM disconnected, with or without the battery pack completely removed. With winter approaching, you'd want to ensure that you have a good 12 v. battery because it would be used to start your Insight just like a non-hybrid vehicle.

If it hasn't happened already, the IMA system will quit charging your 12 v. battery (the battery warning light will illuminate when this happens). At that point, you'll be forced to disconnect the BCM.

So I would order a Better Battery and disconnect the BCM now. Then when your Better Battery arrives, I would remove your current battery pack and install your Better Battery at the same time.

[kennysmith]

Wouldn't another option be to grid charge the current battery? Or are these the codes that don't respond to charging? http://99mpg.com/projectcars/gridcharger/ If you added your location to your signature, Chosen One, there might be a grid charger near you or you can buy one from Mike. Good investment even if a new battery is in your near future.

[Eli]

Whether the pack responds to grid charging just depends on exactly why it's failed and how deteriorated it is. Ideally, it would be best to grid charge before the codes are thrown..

I've been testing an IMA light throwing pack, and grid charging has breathed new life into it. I could probably drive on it nearly indefinitely, since I know the recalibration point(roughly 58% SoC). Keep it above that, and you're fine.

The advanced instrumentation that is available in the form of the BCM Gauge and now the OBDIIC&C Gauge is really handy, especially when dealing with a weak pack.

[Chosen_One]

Thanks for your quick reply.

From my memory, the last battery pack along with the BCM and MCM were replaced at around 115K miles.

I am completely disappointed in it's performance...

I would like to know exactly what Honda does with the new packs (ie if the batteries are brand new or have been refurbished). I would consider this option only because I have some connections within the company. If I can get the pack from Honda, I can do the install myself through the guides on this site.

While I'd like to better the better battery, it seems to still be fairly new. I'd like some input from people who have had it for a few years to say if it's worth it or not. The price of the battery pack is almost 1/3 of what I paid for the car... If there was an easy way to swap in a 4-cyl I would almost prefer it.

Reason why I ask if there would be an issue with disconnecting the BCM is because I thought allowing these batteries to sit for extended periods of time was bad for the battery pack. Is my only limitation keeping the rev's under 4K?

[Eli]

Sitting in and of itself does not hurt a NiMH battery. Things get complicated when you put 120 cells in series though. As cells age, their rate of self discharge changes. This is what causes imbalance in a pack when it sits.

Honda's batteries are believed to be New Old Stock. There is anecdotal evidence suggesting that "new" packs aren't lasting as long as they once did.

I agree with the sentiment regarding the BetterBattery, only time will tell. However, just based on how the battery behaves, and it's overall extremely robust specifications, I believe they will significantly outlast the feeble Honda battery. Again, only time will tell. I plan on posting a "6 month update" regarding the BetterBattery next month. I am confident that it will perform the same as it did when I installed it, however I realize 6mo isn't very long.

If you disconnect your BCM, you really have no concerns. Hitting ~4k RPM will cause the DC-DC converter to shut down, but it comes back on ~30 seconds after your RPMs come back down.

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

Originally Posted by Chosen_One

- new better battery pack (~$1800) + 4-6 wk downtime

$2000, 6 weeks and no downtime because we'll help you bypass it while you wait.

A P1447/P1449 is rarely repairable.

[Hybrid-Battery-Repair]

Originally Posted by Eli

I plan on posting a "6 month update" regarding the BetterBattery next month. I am confident that it will perform the same as it did when I installed it, however I realize 6mo isn't very long.

Aren't you at 6 months now? You got it in May...

[Eli]

Originally Posted by Hybrid-Battery-Repair

Aren't you at 6 months now? You got it in May...

At about 6 months now. I received it the first week of June and installed it a week later.

Still on my itinerary. The OBDIIC&C Gauge is taking up all my time, but I have a little bit of downtime while we wait for the cases to come in, so I should be able to do that. Looking forward to it, though like I said I think it will just be a reprise of what we already know.

[Chosen_One]

Well after driving the car with the IMA and CEL light on for for the past couple months, my battery light finally came on tonight.

I am going to bypass the battery for now.

Anyone have any spare battery sticks I can buy?