An additional thought is this would also only work if turning the IMA on to charge the 12V takes precedence over the 80% SOC reading on the 144V that is turning the IMA off.
And you would want to turn assist (and maybe regen) off using the clutch/brake switch mod.
Cells go through some sort of testing before they're assembled into sticks. No idea what this entails, really - but manufacturing defects and such do happen, so it wouldn't make sense to risk assembling the cells into stick before their overall condition is known.
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Insight #1 - Silver '01 5MT @ 158,388 as of 7/11 - Best Tank: 84.5MPG over 807mi
Insight #2 - Silver '01 5MT @ 450,000 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 86.0MPG over 800mi
Insight #3 - Silver '00 5MT, MIMA #163P, BCM Gauge, OBDIIC&C Gauge, BetterBattery @ 228,869 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 78.4mpg over 687mi
... a dumb charger modeled after what peter was building,which is like my first design - the 12V fan power supply but he sells it only only after you buy a better battery or have a... ?
What did you mean when you said "the 12V fan power supply"? Was it a design that trickle charged the 144V using 12V as the source? I ask in association with my other post about using the car's 12V as a source to trickle charge above 80% while operating the vehicle.
A separate, but related question? Is the "80%" that cuts the car off from charging based on the current capacity at any time in the life of the 144V battery? One of the 1449 codes associates "10% capacity remaining in the battery" or something to that effect. So if based on a SW value of 80% then the car would only charge 80% of 10% of what a "new battery" would charge...a very small value compared to new.
Cells go through some sort of testing before they're assembled into sticks. No idea what this entails, really - but manufacturing defects and such do happen, so it wouldn't make sense to risk assembling the cells into stick before their overall condition is known.
Lot testing of cells by the manufacturer, either individually or through random sampling, would probably guarentee either a minimum capacity or a capacity within an upper and lower range spec. If no matching is done in building the sticks and then later in assembling the battery, then the overall initial battery balance would be driven by this process at the manufacturer and/or age/shelf time. Reasonably?
The 80% and 20% figures refer to battery voltages and are not necessarily a measure of the energy storing capacity of the battery pack. Failed batteries can read high voltages initially and abruptly zonk out under load, having lost the capacity to store energy.
Thanks for responding. The P code is 1576. I now get the IMA light almost daily, generally after driving 10-20 miles. If I then stop the engine, the IMA light will come on within a few minutes of continued driving. Honda says I need a new MCM for $1050.
How about $100 instead. Contact me if you want one.
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2000 MT #4227 175K miles - Citrus Yellow, BetterBattery
Hmmm... My understanding is that Ron is not selling the Better Battery's with Mikes grid chargers or any charger in general. In fact I don't think that he even recommends that the people that buy the BB get a charger. Do you know any different? That's one reason.
We recommend our charges only to those who travel a lot (leave their car parked for extended periods) or live at the top of steep mountains.
We recommend only charging after the car has sat for 4+ days (or when parking for the mountaintop dweller). A good pack should not need more than this and trickle charging NiMH cells gradually wears them out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush
So I was asking if Eli uses his Grid Charger on the Better Battery that he has. And if he does is that his decision or was it recommended by Ron? It was a specific question related to the BB, not the Honda bat packs.
A BetterBattery needs no more or less trickle charging than a stock battery. I know that Eli trickle charges his batteries prior to test runs to ensure they start with a known state of charge.
He also has three cars, so I'm sure he passes the 4+ day mark frequently on at least one of them.
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2000 MT #4227 175K miles - Citrus Yellow, BetterBattery
as I know Ron is offering a dumb charger modeled after what peter was building,which is like my first design - the 12V fan power supply but he sells it only only after you buy a better battery or have a pack repaired.
Since the cell to cell matching on the honda packs eventually leads to the codes and recalibrations, I suspect that Ron is hoping to have people charge their packs to avoid the same issues with his better battery several years down the road.
The better battery may or may not have cells that are as well matched as the honda ones?
Mike,
We only sell one charger for every ten or so batteries ordered. We do not "push" them on people to avoid warranty issues.
We primarily recommend them to people who've had premature failures due to frequent travel or military service. These are people who WILL have a failure in the near future, whether they get a Honda battery, have their battery repaired by us or get a BetterBattery.
If customers don't fall into these categories we generally recommend that they do NOT get a trickle charger as it is a waste of money because we recommend against frequent periodic charging. Remember that it is Panasonic themselves that state that overcharging NiMH cells for long periods can damage the cells.
In time, we'll find out if frequent charging with grid chargers shortens the life of the battery cells and by how much.
Your product can prolong the life of a damaged battery by forcing it back into balance, which is an excellent thing to do, but our customers are starting with a battery that is properly balanced, and if they do something that upsets that balance, they can put it back into balance with a charger.
And the BetterBattery cells are tested and matched at the factory.
Ron.
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2000 MT #4227 175K miles - Citrus Yellow, BetterBattery
The reason I'm trying to get a direct answer is that I was under the impression that a grid charger was not needed with a BB. But if I'm wrong, let me know so that the BB investment remains "in tip top shape for as long as possible". I thought it was a simple question, but it has gotten pretty complicated.
There is no difference between a PrimeEarth EV (Panasonic) battery and a BetterBattery with respect to balance. 120 cells in series will not stay balanced forever.
With our new knowledge of how non-use affects the battery, we can maximize that time by correcting when an un-balancing event occurs.
The problem is that while the battery being unbalanced does massive damage to the cells, grid charging it also does some damage. The trick is to find the right balance for maximum life.
The most bang for the buck is to charge the battery after it has been left sitting. This is what we recommend.
The second is to periodically charge it. How often? Maybe every three-six months. Nobody really knows.
In the end, it is up to the car owner to decide what they want to do.
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2000 MT #4227 175K miles - Citrus Yellow, BetterBattery
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