Grid charger drained 12v battery - seeking advice

**jeff652** · 12-12-2011, 08:36 PM

I had an unexpected event this morning and wanted to post it to see if I should be concerned. I received my HBR grid charger middle of last week and balanced my pack over the weekend (the second time I charged it)

The charger appears to be a copy of this unit:
www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/GridCharger.pdf

The first time I balanced the pack everything worked fine, but it was only a 6 hour charge. I removed the IMA fuse before starting the grid charge and replaced it after disconnecitng the charger. The car started fine. I reset the battery and away I went.

Over the weekend, I wanted to do a deeper balancing as the battery has seemed reluctant to take a full 20 bar charge even after a couple resets. I had it on the charger for about 36 hours (which I now realize is too long according to the above instructions). This time I left the IMA fuse IN during charging and just removed it for about 30 seconds this morning after charging and before starting the car. When I tried to start the car the 12v battery was dead and it would not start. It was trying to crank off of the 12v battery as I had just reset the IMA system (is that normal?). The car wasn't using the IMA battery to start the car. I double checked all interior lights and none were left on. It was struggling to crank very slowly and the dash lights were flickering on and off. I ended up having to jump it to get going. After that everything worked fine and the BetterBattery has/has a full 20 bar charge after re calibrating.

The only difference between my first and second charge (other than the amount of time) was the #18 fuse being left in during grid charging. Is this bad/wrong? Is it recommended to disconnect the IMA fuse #18 during grid charging? Was that not the issue at all and I have something else going on?

Just want to make sure I am not somehow damaging my car/battery. I don't plan to grid charge it often but want to make sure I'm not damaging it when I do.

Thanks
Jeff

**jeff652** · 12-13-2011, 02:30 AM

Update: Had to buy a new 12v battery to get home. I left the grid charger plugged into the battery pack all day (didn't know that was not good until I read the above PDF late this afternoon). The car almost totally died on the freeway - dash went dark, headlights faded, cluster lit up like a Christmas tree. The car was starting to misfire and die as I rolled (literally) into the parking lot. When they checked the voltage at the auto parts store it was down around 9.4v.

New battery fixed everything up. Thankfully they had the correct battery in stock!

I guess the place I got the grid charger from(!) should have included some instructions and/or I should have stumbled onto those online instructions sooner.

jonnyvtec · 12-13-2011, 04:19 AM

If the HV battery is hot after grid charging it will prevent starting on the IMA system and try the 12v battery. I need to change my 12V as I dont think my car has ever started on it. On a number of occasion it has tried it hasnt got the cranking juice to get the engine started.

Willie Williford · 12-13-2011, 12:34 PM

Jeff652:
I assume that the charger is the one that Ron sent with the BB. If not please clarify.
If it is one of his, I expect him to respond soon.
Installing a monitoring gauge for the 12V battery will give you a better indication of the working of the electrical system and help reduce any "stranded" incidents.
You can procure a plug in type monitor (cig.lighter) for a reasonable price. I've been using one for many years.
HTH
Willie
Thanks
Willie

Eli · 12-13-2011, 12:45 PM

This doesn't make any sense. The grid charger has nothing to do with the 12V battery.

Unless Ron's charger somehow uses the 12V battery to power the fan? Ron's charger does run the fan..... Right?

Sounds like it may just be a coincidence.

aisbell · 12-13-2011, 02:13 PM

If Ron's charger is a design similar to the one Peter designed (linked in post #1), it doesn't run the fan. That might explain why the IMA system attempted to use the 12 v. starter after 36 hours of charging which would have made the battery pack quite warm.

**jeff652** · 12-13-2011, 02:22 PM

It is the HBR unit. It does not run the fan. I did check the pack temps regularly while it was balancing, and it wasn't warm, at least not on the plastic casing around the batteries. I have the rear speaker panel and battery exhaust vent removed so I can stick my hand right into the pack from behind the passenger seat. Of course ambient temps are int he low 50's here so that might have been a factor.

I thought perhaps leaving the grid charger plugged into the IMA battery without being plugged into 110 (which the instructions say in bold not to do) that somehow the charger was drawing from the 12v battery while the car was parked. Maybe it was just an ugly coincidence.

I did have to re-soldier all the connections in the grid charger box as several of the wire nuts used had fallen off during shipment. I wouldn't think that would have any impact though.

Eli · 12-13-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aisbell

If Ron's charger is a design similar to the one Peter designed (linked in post #1), it doesn't run the fan. That might explain why the IMA system attempted to use the 12 v. starter after 36 hours of charging which would have made the battery pack quite warm.

Quite warm is an understatement!!!!!

I hope this isn't the case. People are going to kill their brand new batteries!

I have never had the battery be so hot that it won't start with IMA, even at almost 130 degrees..

If this really is the case in jeff's situation, I hope he didn't toast his pack.. though of course it would be under warranty, but it may not be visible right away....

Why charge the BetterBattery for 36+ hours? It's brand new and balanced. It should stay balanced for some time to come... has nothing to do with the SoC gauge...

Eli · 12-13-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff652

It is the HBR unit. It does not run the fan. I did check the pack temps regularly while it was balancing, and it wasn't warm, at least not on the plastic casing around the batteries. I have the rear speaker panel and battery exhaust vent removed so I can stick my hand right into the pack from behind the passenger seat. Of course ambient temps are int he low 50's here so that might have been a factor.

I thought perhaps leaving the grid charger plugged into the IMA battery without being plugged into 110 (which the instructions say in bold not to do) that somehow the charger was drawing from the 12v battery while the car was parked. Maybe it was just an ugly coincidence.

I did have to re-soldier all the connections in the grid charger box as several of the wire nuts used had fallen off during shipment. I wouldn't think that would have any impact though.

I grid charged my pack one cool morning before it was widely thrown around that running the pack fan while charging is mandatory, figuring it would be OK. Ambient temps were in the upper 50s, lower 60s.

When I checked on the pack 6 hours later, it was 140 degrees. There is no way for heat to escape the pack if the fan isn't running, the plastic casing simply insulates it.

I cannot believe that Ron's chargers don't run the fan..... People are going to toast their packs come summer.... if not sooner..

The plastic air inlet manifold is offset.. you cannot touch the cells from the opening...

#6...

**jeff652** · 12-13-2011, 02:32 PM

The Battery arrived with balance issues, which I notified Ron about. The 8 hour charge didn't fix it, even after multiple forced recals (i.e. pulling the IMA fuse). The longer charge seems to have helped significantly. It will now charge to a full 20 bars.

Would the batteries be hot even if the plastic casing immediately around the batteries and the interior of the car was quite cold?