I noticed about three weeks ago that my IMA battery meter would go completely to zero, and then charge up very quickly. It would be fine for a few days, and then do it again. However, my milage around town was still in the high 40's (I have al ead foot and live where there are a lot of steep hills)
My car recently sat for three days, and I went out to get in and turned the key and got nuttin. I am guessing that it starts from the regualr battery right? Does a diminishing regualr battery effect the operation of the IMA battery? Could it be that a regualr battery that is dying might cause things to act funny like that?
Naturally, I am going to check it in the morning. But thought I might solicit some input here first.
Also, I need to replace some of the underside aero pieces under the car a front air dam and the flares in the wheel wells...etc. I would like to replace the fabric in the seats as well, if anyone has a resource for various parts.
What you're experiencing are called recalibrations. It's a sign of battery imbalance. Grid charging your pack ASAP would likely cull them.
Check your ground straps and load test your 12V battery. The 12V battery can be on it's last legs and an Insight owner would never know it. The 12V battery being weak will not cause recalibrations.
__________________
Insight #1 - Silver '01 5MT @ 158,388 as of 7/11 - Best Tank: 84.5MPG over 807mi
Insight #2 - Silver '01 5MT @ 450,000 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 86.0MPG over 800mi
Insight #3 - Silver '00 5MT, MIMA #163P, BCM Gauge, OBDIIC&C Gauge, BetterBattery @ 228,869 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 78.4mpg over 687mi
My car recently sat for three days, and I went out to get in and turned the key and got nuttin. I am guessing that it starts from the regualr battery right? Does a diminishing regualr battery effect the operation of the IMA battery? Could it be that a regualr battery that is dying might cause things to act funny like that?
Thanks
The car will normally start using the IMA battery to spin the ICE using the IMA motor, if the IMA battery is dead or not functional then it will use the 12V car battery under the hood to crank the ICE using a conventional starter. For the IMA system to function you must have a good 12V battery as it is used to energize the relays that allow IMA function.
The IMA system on this car is really good at hidding a failing 12V battery, mine seemed to be functioning fine one minute and the next minute all dash lights went crazy and everything was dead. Replaced the 12V and all good again, but Eli is right you are getting IMA recalibrations and yoru IMA battery is not in good shape.
Thanks guys. So I have two things going on then. It has the original 12v battery in the car, so its a good bet that baby is just done.
Oh yeah, so if the12v battery is done, and from the way you describe the workings of the system (battery powers relays...etc), it sound like bump starting the car will not work then...right? I live at the top of a huge hill and that could work for making runs to the autoparts store for now...but would suck if the car wont bump-start and run.
As for the recalibrations, am I to understand that the system is recalibrating because the IMA battery is wearing out, and to put it to bext use, it needs to measure the capacity and such so the computer can manage it and display proper readings on the guages?
How does on grid charge the IMA, and why would that fix my problem?
As for an expiring IMA battery, I have heard that usually there are just a few bad elements in the IMA pack and that you can replace just those units? Is that correct?
Any word on where I can find those other parts I mentioned? I also need a wheel. I knicked a curb an a piece of the rin bead broke off. Its fine and holding air no prob, but looks crappy and will likely get worse in some fashion, so I want to replace the wheel and tire.
Last edited by hybridracer; 01-27-2012 at 01:34 AM.
Nope, bump starting won't work if the 12V is dead. The car needs power to operate. There's also an odd situation encountered with a 12V battery that is below about 10.9V or so. There can be just enough juice to start the car with the 12V starter, but with the voltage that low the DC/DC converter fails to engage and thus isn't charging your 12V battery, so doesn't solve the problem.
There are two types of recalibrations, negative and postiive. Both are undesirable, overall.
A negative recalibration is when the computers have detected that a subpack within the battery has become empty. Thus, it adjusts the SoC meter to empty.
A positive recalibration is just the opposite - the computers have detected that a subpack within the battery has become full. So it adjusts the SoC meter to full.
Rapid swings in the SoC meter mean that the battery is severely imbalanced - you essentially have cells that are nearly completely empty and full. When you discharge, the nearly empty cells are exhausted quickly, and you get a negative recalibration. Since you used very little charge overall, the nearly full cells are still nearly full. When you begin charging again, these nearly full cells become completely full quickly, and you get a positive recalibration, leaving the cells that were empty still nearly empty.
The only way to attempt to fix this imbalance is with an external means, since the car's systems cannot do it by themselves. This is where the grid charger comes in. The grid charger allows you to charge all cells to 100% full. It does this by very slowly charging the entire pack. The cells that are nearly fully charged become fully charged first, but this is OK since we are using a very slow trickle charge. They burn the low input off as heat while the straggling cells catch up.
As for why the IMA battery becomes imbalanced in the first place, that is due to deteriorated cells. So grid charging after the IMA light is simply a bandaid - it will breathe new life into the pack, but it will not make it "brand new" again. In order to bring the pack into optimal operating condition, you must remove the deteriorated cells. This involves testing each subpack within the battery for capacity and self discharge rate.
__________________
Insight #1 - Silver '01 5MT @ 158,388 as of 7/11 - Best Tank: 84.5MPG over 807mi
Insight #2 - Silver '01 5MT @ 450,000 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 86.0MPG over 800mi
Insight #3 - Silver '00 5MT, MIMA #163P, BCM Gauge, OBDIIC&C Gauge, BetterBattery @ 228,869 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 78.4mpg over 687mi
OK...so are there directions for this and how can I do it? If I dont do this to the IMA battery right now though, the worst thing I will see is reduced mileage...right?
Is there a manual for this. I know there is a lot of juice back there and I wouldnt want to get zapped. I have worked on cars most of my life but this would be new to me, but with some guidance, a manual or something like that, I am sure I could swing it.
As for a charger, how do you do that? Wouldnt you have to trickle charge each individual cell in the pack?
Any more details or help you might be able to offer would be helpful.
Another question though, why wouldnt a total drain of the IMA battery work, and then let it charge by driving it normally? Then all the cells are emoty right? Why would they all not fully charge from there?
As for replacing the 12v battery, since it is my only car, I guess I need to find a ride to the parts store to get a battery and get that done.
A "total" drain of the IMA pack would be a step in the right direction - but remember the imbalance. If you continue discharging the cells that are nearer to full through the cells that are empty, they will be permanently damaged - this is called "cell reversal".
The reason a grid charger works is because it is not overtly damaging to trickle charge a NiMH cell. The cells that become full first simply burn the input off as heat, allowing the straggling cells to catch up.
If you have a battery charger you could attempt to charge the 12V battery. Unless it has a shorted cell or something, it would likely get you to the store.
__________________
Insight #1 - Silver '01 5MT @ 158,388 as of 7/11 - Best Tank: 84.5MPG over 807mi
Insight #2 - Silver '01 5MT @ 450,000 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 86.0MPG over 800mi
Insight #3 - Silver '00 5MT, MIMA #163P, BCM Gauge, OBDIIC&C Gauge, BetterBattery @ 228,869 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 78.4mpg over 687mi
As for a charger, how do you do that? Wouldnt you have to trickle charge each individual cell in the pack?
I believe Mike D is currently out of grid chargers but Art has some for sale I believe, they are dumb chargers that you will have to manually monitor but it will get the job done.
Just a note: If Mike doesn't get enough orders, there will not be another batch of his wonderful grid chargers. That's why I've been steering people in that direction...
__________________
Insight #1 - Silver '01 5MT @ 158,388 as of 7/11 - Best Tank: 84.5MPG over 807mi
Insight #2 - Silver '01 5MT @ 450,000 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 86.0MPG over 800mi
Insight #3 - Silver '00 5MT, MIMA #163P, BCM Gauge, OBDIIC&C Gauge, BetterBattery @ 228,869 as of 1/12 - Best Tank: 78.4mpg over 687mi
If you care about keeping your Insight alive, don't miss this one time opportunity to get one of Mike's chargers. Sure, you can get a cheaper dumb charger, but sooner or later you will forget to check it, or it will do something you didn't expect it to, and you will do permanent damage to your battery.
Just bite the bullet and get on Mike's waiting list NOW. His chargers are safe and offer many more options than you will ever have with a dumb charger.
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Dead battery - or IMA?
