Help for Insight that sat and won't start

[Just Bruce]

Hello,

I’m hoping I can get some help with a 2004 Insight that sat for roughly two and a half months and now will not start. During the time my Insight was not running, I was working through a MIMA install from Mike who has been very good about helping me out. This is by no means commentary about the MIMA system which I still can’t wait to get into this car. Unfortunately, there were a number of speed bumps along the way that kept the car off the road for a fair amount of time.

Some pertinent and relative history:

The car has about 40K miles. I’ve owned it for a little more than a year now. A new IMA battery (under warranty) was put in January 2012.
Car has been running fine until…

I went to install a plug and play MIMA system (middle of September). The install took a very long time as the four or so of the hex bolts from the IMA side panel had stripped heads (presumably from the IMA battery replacement from the Honda dealer?). Because of work, another week had passed before I was finally able to pull two of the hexs out. During that time, I had the 12 volt battery neg. cable off and the IMA switched off.

Another week, all bolts out.

Another week, MIMA install started. But I was unable to finish it.

Another week, MIMA install completed. Car dash showed engine, oil, ABS and EPS lights. Pulled MIMA boards, engine, oil, ABS and EPS lights went away. Sent boards and cable back to Mike for testing. Very responsive.
As Car already had panels off and a seat out, I elected to put in sound dampening (mostly ensolite from RaM audio). I also ran cables for future speaker upgrades as well as a 10 gauge shield cable--crutchfield from the 12 volt battery to the back of the car for a possible future amp. Tested the 10 gauge cable. Got power it was able to drive a sub. Everything okay.

Moved car (under power) no unusual dash lights were present at the time but car made some clicks and hesitated before starting. After starting the car again (to move it two days later), there was less hesitation. I’m happy.

MIMA replacement parts arrived, but not finished with the sound dampening (man…it is a lot of work trying to refit the panels@#$@!!)

Two more weeks passed before I was able to finish the sound dampening. I reinstalled the MIMA. Turned the key. I got an engine, oil, ABS and EPS lights on the dash and the car would not start. I disconnected the MIMA boards (at the MCM and ECM plug-in points). Now the ABS light is no longer on the dash but engine, oil and EPS lights still show up. The car won’t start (I hear the fuel pump whirling) and dash lights come, radio plays but the car will not crank. I have the have the fuse pulled from the shield 10 gauge cable.

I took the 12 volt battery to AutoZone. The battery was good and they fully charged it. Back at home, I cleaned the 12 volt cables along with the contacts. The car will not crank nor jump start. I looked at the ground cables and they all appear good but I none the less cleaned the ones I could get to.

Car still doesn’t start. Wife pissed.

So in looking for solutions here, I had found a few threads about Insights that sat for various reasons then would not restart. In following the threads to their entirety, I could not find a follow up or ending solution where the problem was reported to have been solved and what it was due to.

So after all of this diatribe, I’m hoping someone can point me towards a solution or systematic way of handling this. Ideally—like if’s a frozen starter or something, I can tow the Insight to my local mechanic who I trust. The alternative is to be at the mercy of the Honda dealer and maybe pay out the big bucks which I just don’t have along with a pricey tow.

1. Have others found common problems with sitting Insights that won’t crank?
a. What was the cause?
2. I may have to let the Insight sit as I don’t have the funds with Christmas and such right now, Am I damaging the IMA battery?
3. Would a grid charger (based on the car design) possibly get me back up and going?
a. If so, any way to rent one?
4. Any problem with Honda service if I leave the unconnected MIMA components in place? Will they mistakenly blame the MIMA for a IMA battery problem?

Thanks you,

Just Bruce.

[aisbell]

On all Insights I have seen, all the warning lights illuminate when the ignition key is turned to the "on" position. Are you experiencing different behavior?

After installing MIMA, did you turn the master IMA cutoff switch back on? Even if you did not, the 12 v. starter should start your engine, but only after a significant delay. So you'd need to leave the ignition key in the start position for up to 15 seconds to insure that the 12 v. starter is activated. But some have reported their 12 v. starter motor bearings being frozen in place due to lack of activity, or maybe corrosion on the 12 v. starter cable preventing the 12 v. starter motor from operating.

After your battery pack has sat mostly unused during your saga, different self-discharge rates among the cells have probably reduced the capacity of your battery pack which could lead to its early demise unless it's balance-charged soon. So consider building or buying a grid charger ASAP.

[Just Bruce]

I waited fifteen seconds and tried to restart the car. Nothing changed..it would not crank. I also realize now that what I'm hearing is the fan (of the IMA battery pack) from the back of the car.

I got flash data from the dash when I accessed the OBD II slot. The IMA light was blinking (6 long and 4 short); One long and two short seem to correspond to codes P1576 Motor Drive Module Problem and P1648 Battery Condition Monitor.

I rechecked all connections for the BCM and MCM. Wiring good. The plugs are seated properly I'm perplexed. Is there a way to start the car with these error codes (to save a tow)? Any idea what this might set me back if these modules are replaced?

Thank you,

Just Bruce

[gilbertguy]

Try this to iliminate the ICE (engine) as an issue. Disconnect the 12V under the hood and then turn off the big IMA switch, unplug all three connections on the BCM. Connect the 12V back up and see if the ICE will crank on the 12V and start. This will disable the hybrid system and run the car just like any other car out there on the road.

Now with MIMA installed I don't know if that will affect this but if it starts that at least will tell you that it has to be something related to MIMA or IMA and not the engine. Also this will allow you to drive the car while you continute to trouble shoot this issue and thus make the wife happy(er).

Let us know if it starts with BCM disconnected and IMA switch off.

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

Bruce,
A dumb question but worth getting the confirmation so we can eliminate the possibility.
Did you possibly mix up the ECM and MCM plug in adapters and plug them into the wrong modules and turn on the ignition at some point in all of this?

I have heard of several people having frozen 12V starters, since they seldom get used.
One happened here during a MIMA install. We whacked the side of the starter with a hammer , and it cranked right up.
Another thing to try, is bump starting the car to confirm that it runs normally once started.

blink code 64 6 long 4 short is P 1648 BCM communication signal problem, which would point to a intermittent or open connection at the BCM module, I would suggest that you pull out, and inspect all of the mcm, bcm, ecm, connectors and give them a good visual examination to confirm that none of the pins have pushed back,and the wires are intact, and when reseating, make sure the connectors click in.

Also in the MIMA install, we ask that you remove some of the covering and black tape on the ECM harness. I had one guy cut a wire there while he was doing that, could you have nicked a wire there?
Good luck

[biododge1]

I would switch off the ima, If no crank-check grounds real good. If ok, jumper the solenoid on the starter (out of gear!). if no crank the pull starter as it may be frozen. Bench test it to see if bad. As for the mima stuff, sorry, I've no clue about any of that-(but i see Mike D has chimed in so your good there)

[retepsnikrep]

I agree with all that advice and especially Art's about grid charging the IMA battery before it dies.

Back to the non starting.

Try bump starting the car, if it runs then it's just a 12v/IMA start issue.

If the 12v starter has never been used then it's quite possible for it to be stuck. As has been suggested the engine grounds need to be perfect for it to work correctly.

The IMA errors indicate to me.

1) P1648 = Mima install wiring error or bad connection.
2) P1576 possibly related to bad IMA battery but could be as 1) above.

I've seen one P&P mima board with a loose wire I think it was a critical ground IIRC so checking the plug/socket combo is vital. IIRC it did cause some funny errors.