immobilizer problem after parked for 2 weeks

[randerson0248]

Car was parked for 2 weeks with a dead 12 volt battery.

Now after charging the 12 volt, the car will not start.

Flashing key on dash. Strange thing is that if I turn the key to start
And then to off and then back to start three times in a row, then on the
Third time to key to start position, the 12 volt starter motor will turn the
Engine over. It does not start, but the 12v starter is spinning the engine.
It does not start because the injectors are not pulsing. It will run for a few seconds with
Starting fluid.

Hv battery charge was also low, so I did a grid charge on the hv battery.

Here is the really strange thing that happened. I turned the key to start position
And nothing happened, as before charging the hv battery. Then I let the key
Go back to the on position, and about ten seconds later the engine starts "running"
At about 1800 or 2000 rpm. After "running" for 3 minutes or so, it stopped. Pushing
On the gas pedal had no effect on the engine speed. After the engine "ran" for three
minutes, the HV battery's charge was depleted. So, what really happened when I thought
the car had started running was that the ima motor was spinning the engine.

FYI, the car has MIMA.

Suggestions on how to fix?

[jeff652]

Sometimes the immobilizer will allow the engine to crank, but not allow it to start (depends on how fast you rotate the key in ignition). If the green key icon on the dash is flashing, it's immobilizer circuit. Do you have a second key you could try?

It's either they key (most common), sensor on ignition switch, wires, or IMMO chip on ECU. Do you have other keys on the same ring? They can mess up the signal sometimes.

If not maybe consider getting the IMMO chip removed from the ECU, then it just goes away and you don't have to worry about it:
OBD-2 / Immobilizer Bypass | .: FF CHIPS :.

[retepsnikrep]

Basically the imboilizer has forgotten the key codes and needs to be re-programmed by the dealer or using a honda tool with key coding capability.
Or you can remove it as mentioned by prev poster.

The keys are not the problem. The EEPROM in the ECU has just forgotten the codes due to the battery being dead for too long.
You can turn it over until doomsday, but until you get the imobilizer recoded to the keys or removed you are fubar.

I'm going to add some limited key programming to the OBDIIC&C at some stage for this type of scenario but that won't help you at the moment sadly as it's months away.

[talonmike]

My insight stays 3 years witouth power, and the ECU never loose code. It is store in an eprom

[jeff652]

Originally Posted by retepsnikrep

The keys are not the problem. The EEPROM in the ECU has just forgotten the codes due to the battery being dead for too long.

Peter, are you saying there is a battery in the ECU that needs to be serviced eventually? Is so, that would be news to me.

Perhaps this is a USA vs. Int'l thing, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree on this point . I believe this is world wide, but I know for sure the following applies to all USA cars: The key code is stored in a manner that never deletes from the ECU (it can't be forgotten by the ECU). I've used ECUs that have sat for years unplugged from a car without issues. The IMMO information doesn't get 'lost' in the ECU from lack of power.

It's actually quite common here in the US for a Honda key to get over exposed to a magnet and loose it's info. My parts dept. friends are constantly copying keys for customers who had one "die".

Hopefully you have a spare. A friendly dealer will copy your key and program a new one for ~$25. If you have no spares and have to get the ECU & keys reprogrammed, that takes the service department and is usually $140+

Having Katman remove the IMMO chip for $85 is the cheaper way to go at that point, plus it's an absolute fix. Only bummer is the 7-10 day downtime while he turns your ECU.

[diamondlarry]

Originally Posted by jeff652

If not maybe consider getting the IMMO chip removed from the ECU, then it just goes away and you don't have to worry about it:
OBD-2 / Immobilizer Bypass | .: FF CHIPS :.

This works. I suggest option 2.

[randerson0248]

I have a spare ecu and key that I have tried, and both ecu's do the same.

Does this information change your suggestions? Will the imobilizer bypass work if
The problem lies with the immobilizer circuit at the steering column?

[jeff652]

Originally Posted by randerson0248

I have a spare ecu and key that I have tried, and both ecu's do the same.

Does this information change your suggestions? Will the imobilizer bypass work if
The problem lies with the immobilizer circuit at the steering column?

Hrmm, How did you try the spare key/ECU combo? Is it actually cut to your car? It's not that 2004 set I sold you is it? If it is not the ECU then I would suspect the IMMO sensor around the ignition switch. They are not known to fail on Insights, but it is common for them to die on other Honda's (Odyssey for example). I have one in San Jose if you want to grab it. You can have it. Past customer appreciation discount

If you are trying to lay that other key back to back with your current key, it won't work. you CAN however get a non-jacketed/chipped (tell them it's for a 1993 Honda Civic) key, have it cut at home depot for example, then tape it back to back to the correct chipped key. There is a procedure for this in the Helms manual.

[jeff652]

Originally Posted by randerson0248

Will the imobilizer bypass work if
The problem lies with the immobilizer circuit at the steering column?

Yes, removing the IMMO chip in the ECU bypasses the entire system. Regardless of the cause of the current failure (key, ECU, or switch sensor), if you do the FF-squad chip removal, the IMMO system will not stop the car from starting ever again (on that ECU).

BTW, if you do email Mr Katman (aka Jason), tell him Jeff Sloan referred you. That will help expedite the process

[retepsnikrep]

Originally Posted by jeff652

Perhaps this is a USA vs. Int'l thing, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree on this point .

I understand and you may be right but EEPROM is not infalible, if I had that problem and access to a honda tool (which i do) I would be trying to re-program first.