Questions about troubleshooting when inspecting a potential purchase

[roflwaffle]

Hi, I've looked a few Insights so far and I'm wondering what I can safely disregard and what I should be wary of. Specifically, I've found...

-Rattling when driving/accelerating;
The least harmful cause I've heard of seems to be loose/rusted exhaust heat shields. Is there anything that would cause a very loud rattling when driving and be worse than this?

-Battery going from very low to very high quickly, over quarter mile down the road at 30mph;
I think this could be an example of a positive recal. But could it be symptomatic of a weaker battery too?

-Oil leak from the back of engine;
This I've seen on a couple, and while it doesn't seem to leak at idle, there's enough there to suspect a substantial leak at higher loads. It'll cover the back of the oil pan, rear back of the engine, and rear subframe on the passenger side. Are there any known trouble spots with these engines?

Lastly, besides these three issues, are there any others I should look for, and if so, what's the best way to troubleshoot?

[freezin4]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

Hi, I've looked a few Insights so far and I'm wondering what I can safely disregard and what I should be wary of. Specifically, I've found...

-Rattling when driving/accelerating;
The least harmful cause I've heard of seems to be loose/rusted exhaust heat shields. Is there anything that would cause a very loud rattling when driving and be worse than this?

-Rear motor mount. They all fail eventually, and will shake/rattle at take off. Not too difficult to replace on a lift. I think new one is about $200. (Check Majestic Honda online for decent prices.)

-Belt tensioner pulley. This can cause a nasty noise. Aftermarket cost is about $25. Not to hateful to install.

-A/C compressor pulley. I bought a used compressor to install in my citrus. That way no worries to swap the pulley. ~$100-$200

-Battery going from very low to very high quickly, over quarter mile down the road at 30mph;
I think this could be an example of a positive recal. But could it be symptomatic of a weaker battery too?

-Positive Recal...could be due to decreased battery capacity, or possibly the seller resetting IMA light a little before your test drive???? I'm speculating. Need smarter people to chime in please.

-Oil leak from the back of engine;
This I've seen on a couple, and while it doesn't seem to leak at idle, there's enough there to suspect a substantial leak at higher loads. It'll cover the back of the oil pan, rear back of the engine, and rear subframe on the passenger side. Are there any known trouble spots with these engines?

-I have seen several with valve cover gasket leaks too. Maybe front seal too?I

Lastly, besides these three issues, are there any others I should look for, and if so, what's the best way to troubleshoot?

-Transmission "syncro" grind with downshifting to 2nd and 1st. Jeff652 can do the fix for you efficiently. But you can compensate for this and drive for years if you choose.

-Make sure tires are the Potenzas if planning on high MPG achievement as priority over better ride.

-Catalytic converters are expensive dealer items.

-Suspension bushings, stabilizer links, shocks, are (mostly) dealer only items. I've been living with the "squeaky creeks" for a few years now.

-SEVERAL other pesky quirks that are actually easy to chase down and correct. (wet seatbelt, rear hatch latch failure, underbody shields missing, driver side window motor fail, trip meter button fail, center coil fail, etc

.....................

[eq1]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

-Battery going from very low to very high quickly.... I think this could be an example of a positive recal. But could it be symptomatic of a weaker battery too?

My understanding is that the in-dash state of charge gauge will only go from very low to very high due to a positive recal.

-It would do that if the IMA system were manually reset, such as by pulling off the 12 volt battery ground; this wouldn't necessarily indicate a weak HV battery.

-More likely: One doesn't get a 'very low to very high' positive recal unless there was a negative recal, while one doesn't get a negative recal unless the HV battery is weak. How weak I don't know...

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

-Oil leak from the back of engine...

I've seen slight oil dampness around/under my front crank seal area, and I think that tends to drip to the back-side of the oil pan. I'm thinking the front crank seal is a common leak, yet I'd ding any prospective purchase if it leaked so much that it got the oil pan oily. That goes for any oil leaks...

[jime]

You will get the IMA light if the Battery Control Module calculates that the battery capacity is less than 15% of original capacity. Since you didn't mention IMA, then the battery may be in fair condition. But, be warned, in the transition zone between "fair" and "bad" the State of Charge gauge can be rather erratic. After the above mentioned reset, the IMA light can come in minutes or days.

Without special gauges, the only way to get a rough idea of battery capacity is by driving. Use lots of regeneration to get the battery fully charged, then use lots of assist to see how quickly the battery discharges. You can shut off any intervening regeneration by shutting off the key and coasting. (Warning: just to accessory position, first key click, so as not to lock steering.) A "fair" battery would deliver 1.5-2 minutes of full assist. A minute will get you by until you get it fixed. BTW, a new battery from Bumblebeebatteries.com is around $2K. Most folks think the Honda dealer ones are refurbished. If worse comes to worse, the car can be driven satisfactorily with the battery turned off. Some minor mods are required.

[roflwaffle]

Thanks everyone! I also have a question about the CELs. I have an OBDII/usb cable and some very basic software. When I've connected it to my Prius I've seen that it last had error codes at xx,xxx miles. If the CEL is tripped on an insight, and then turns off, is that code stored in memory permanently, or will I only pull a code if the CEL is actually on?

[Insight for life]

Pending(no CEL light yet) codes can still be seen on a obd scanner. but if the code(s) have been cleared and they HAVE NOT yet returned as pending OR triggered the CEL, then you will not be able to see them on a obd scanner. but when you connect your scanner to the car, you can see if the codes have been recently cleared or the battery has been disconnected by checking the I/M monitors readiness on your scanner. if there are any flashing that means the cars computer has not yet performed all of the "Checking" it needs to do to make sure there are no Current pending codes.

[roflwaffle]

I went for 2nd test drive of a car that I'm pretty sure is a flip. On the plus side the price seems to be reasonable, and the weakest link seems to be a battery. The rattling was I think a combination of road noise and the plastic cover/air box being loose.

I went on the freeway and alternated between flogging it and popping it into neutral in order to keep it from going into regen, and it lasted about 8 miles before it recal'ed from ~12-15 bars to ~5-6 bars after I had exited the freeway and done a few accelerations from a stop. Does that correspond to ~30-40% capacity for the battery?

[eq1]

Do you mean 30-40% capacity used? If so, hard to say without knowing exactly where the state of charge was when you started, among other things... If it were my car and you started with the gauge at the top, at 20 bars, the start SOC would be somewhere between 76.1% and 81%. And then, if you were able to take it down to the 15th bar before it negative recal-ed, the SOC would be about... 20th=5% of capacity, 19th=8%, 18th=8%, 17th=2%, 16th=2% ... about 20% plus some of the 5% for the top bar, since you wouldn't know whether you were at 76.1% or 81%, plus however much you were able to drain out of the 15th bar, which is also 2% capacity I think (in my car, other cars with different computers are a bit different I believe)...

[roflwaffle]

I was referring to it having 30-40% of the original capacity. If the SOC bars aren't linear, I'm guessing that pack could have anyplace from 25-50% of it's original capacity left.

[aisbell]

Keep in mind that the capacities of the battery pack cells could still be high, but significant differences of the charge levels of the cells could result in a negative recal occurring when the voltage of one of the cell stick pairs drops below the lower limit. If this explains your negative recal, a balancing charge with a grid charger should restore the apparent loss of capacity.

However, "bad" cells (e.g., high internal resistance, low capacity) could also explain the negative recal. These sorts of problems won't be solved by balance charging.

So as others have stated, it's almost impossible to determine the actual health of the battery pack by a driving test.