13 + gallon capacity in an Insight?

Hi Rick:

___Thank you for the Honda-Hybrid group information … Do you remember how he did it time after time after time? I will search that forum later today for the term “Vapor” and see if I can find it. I always top my vehicles off but the Insight at top off held a maximum of ~ 11.0 gallons until this last fill up … And now that I know it’s possible, I can imagine you could reach out and touch 1,400 miles given you and your Insight’s capabilities!

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1gqxu5zk]Waynegerdes@earthlink.net[/email:1gqxu5zk]

[Insightful Trekker]

I am not pointing fingers here or making a judgment. Please simply take this as an FYI. :)

When you overfill the vapor separator you prevent it from doing its job. HC emissions from the fuel tank, especially in warm weather will increase.

In the most severe scenario you could leak liquid gasoline on the ground!. Which could be a fire hazard given the wrong place at the wrong time.

In the case of a severe rear end accident the charcoal canister would also become a secondary fire hazard. The fuel tank itself is obviously #1.

Most often you will saturate the charcoal canister which will take much longer to purge and HC emissions will be higher.


Kinda counter productive to what the Insight is a symbol for.

:)

Hi Insightful Trekker:

___Your emissions points are quite valid … Except the 5-speed Insight isn’t that clean in the first place Making it worse certainly isn’t something any of us should do however. I pulled a page off the web that mentioned that ~ 20% of a vehicles HC emissions are from evaporation as shown here: http://www.alflash.narod.ru/evap.htm

___There appears to be a liquid/vapor trap in the canister itself although I have no idea if it works properly if the canister was liquid saturated or immersed?

The canister contains a liquid fuel trap that collects any liquid fuel entering the canister. Condensed fuel vapor forms liquid fuel. This liquid is returned from the canister to the tank when a vacuum is present in the tank. This liquid fuel trap prevents liquid fuel from contaminating the charcoal in the canister. The EVAP system reduces the escape of HC evaporative emissions from the gasoline tank to the atmosphere.

___As posted in the following: http://www.autosite.com/garage/subsys/baemmiss.asp and the diagram as shown here: http://www.autosite.com/garage/subsys/14-23d.asp.

___Then again, here is a direct “How bad is it if I … top off the gas tank?” according to Via:

You’ve probably noticed the little signs on gas pumps warning that topping off—squeezing into the tank every last drop of gas that will fit-is forbidden. Topping off is unlikely to damage your car, but it can add to air pollution.

Topping off tends to allow more gasoline vapor to escape into the air, especially when those last few ounces of gas dribble down the side of your car. The pollution a little raw gasoline adds to the air when it evaporates is considerably worse than would come from that same volume of gas if it ran through the car’s engine.

Most cars have a vapor recovery system as part of their pollution control equipment. It uses a canister of activated charcoal to capture gasoline vapor that exists in the car’s fuel system. Eventually it sends the vapor to the engine. Topping off can make it difficult for the recovery system to do a thorough job.

___Somewhere in the Insight Encyclopedia or KB, there was a one line drawing/schematic of the fuel vapor recovery system. In it, you could see the tank, the ball check, and the rest of the vapor recovery tubing and HW. If the schematic was laid out properly, the Vapor canister and portions of the vapor tubing were higher (vapor piping to the canister was possibly?) then the fuel neck although I don’t know exactly where it (the canister and the associated vapor tubing) are? If some of that tubing is higher then the filler neck, I don’t think there are issues other then the vapor lines are filled with fuel up to the point of the filler neck? That in itself leads to a more dangerous situation if a vapor line were ruptured in an accident. If you can provide more info, I would most certainly appreciate it …

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:ra6wh4bb]Waynegerdes@earthlink.net[/email:ra6wh4bb]

[Insightful Trekker]

Originally Posted by xcel

<snip>

I don’t think there are issues other then the vapor lines are filled with
fuel up to the point of the filler neck? That in itself leads to a more
dangerous situation if a vapor line were ruptured in an accident. If you
can provide more info, I would most certainly appreciate it.

I believe the worst case scenario is that of the separator being disabled in this fashion then liquid fuel can enter the canister. The canister is vented to the atmosphere. Given enough liquid fuel vented to the canister, it will spill on the ground. And require a much longer purge time for the canister to recover.

Thanks again for the FYI on CVT vs. 5spd and emissions. from a past thread of yours: I didn't know that Amoco ultimate fuel would further reduce 5spd emissions to approach the CVT's capability. It's what I use.

[bfivelover]

My question is how are you getting 97MPG on over 300 miles? I find that more remarkable than 13 gallons pumped. Do you only drive it downhill? I can get in the 90-102 range on one stretch of road if I keep it around 40MPH and nobody is behind me in a hurry, but that's only about 20 miles. Is Illinois that flat? Guess I'll find out in August when I head to Yellowstone.

Hi Bfivelover:

Originally Posted by bfivelover

My question is how are you getting 97MPG on over 300 miles?

___It is like anyone else here that drives their Insight’s for maximum mileage. Slow your vehicle down to the limits, drive w/ load, press up the tires, and use Mobil1 0W-20 between the marks. I was fortunate to have had a very nice tail wind for (1) 96 mile segment which gave me a 112.5 mpg run on a particular afternoon drive home. Average that into the mix and you can see how 90 + is almost a guarantee on this tank … There are a ton of little tricks to go along with that but even with the tricks; I had a real nice average going of multiple 87 - 95 mpg segments with 40 - 65 degree temperatures until driving home early this morning in this damned 45 degree F cold w/ a steady downpour. After that 96 mile run, this segment is showing a lowly 82.4 mpg I am still viewing my best tank ever w/ Trip A at 91.8 mpg over 1085 miles. Currently, I have 2 bars left on the fuel gauge and the low fuel light is not lit as of this writing. If I can hold a decent average to the Greenhybrid.com group meet at the Brewers game tomorrow and back, I should have a 1,200 tank depending on how far it is to Miller Park? I will snap some pic’s tomorrow …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:3tgygy57]Waynegerdes@earthlink.net[/email:3tgygy57]

Hi All:

___Well, I can pretty much put this one to bed …

****************************

04/17/2004 Fillup number 1:

Miles traveled: 1005.4 miles
Gallons purchased: 13.436 gallons.
MPG: 74.83 mpg
Trip A MPG shown: 90 MPG

****************************

04/25/04 Fillup number 2:

Miles traveled: 1228.4 miles
Gallons purchased: 10.714 gallons.
MPG: 114.65 mpg
Trip A MPG shown: 91.6 MPG

****************************

Last two fill ups when combined:

Miles Traveled: 2233.8 miles
Gallons purchased: 24.15 gallons
Calculated MPG: 92.5 mpg

****************************

___The Vapor Recovery tubing and possibly the canister itself were filled and the pump read off the correct amount. I only wish I knew how to fill the little red beauty up w/ 13 + gallons on each and every tank. I tried to do that today by filling her up to the filler neck and letting her sit for ~ 2 minutes. I could only get in maybe another ounce afterwards if that

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1x40fdmy]Waynegerdes@earthlink.net[/email:1x40fdmy]

[b1shmu63]

Hmmm, that's like Montreal to Thunder Bay and back on two fillups ~ 36 dollars!

[james]

"When you overfill the vapor separator you prevent it from doing its job."

Also consider the expansion of the gasoline. It's kept in underground storage tanks. On a warm day, there can be a 50 degree or more difference between the gasoline as it's pumped, and ambient temperature. Pump the tank full of cold gas, let it expand, and it'll dribble out the pressure relief valve and down the side of the car. So unless you're planning to drive a couple of hundred miles right away, it's probably a bad idea

As for the 97 MPG, that's not hard if all you're doing is freeway cruising. I'm usually sitting around 100 mpg on my way into town (and doing around 70). Admittedly there's a slight downhill - maybe 300 ft in 15 miles - but on the return I see 70-80 when there's no headwind.

Hi James:

___As for the vapor expansion … I had an ~ 35 mile drive after that fillup so there was an amount of fuel used from that point and another 95 miler ~ 9 hours afterwards. I haven’t seen any ill effects other then extended range so far and the inability to insert nearly the same amount of fuel on the following fill (10.714 vs. 13.436 gallons). The rest of my vehicles (past and present) have never shown an ill effect over 100’s of thousands of miles after top offs for what that is worth.

___I sure wish Honda had given us another 2 or 3 gallons for our little beauties … Can you imagine Coast to Coast on just 2 fillups

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email27toziu]Waynegerdes@earthlink.net[/email27toziu]