Strange problem in power train

jpg · 10-09-2009, 01:53 PM

Hi all,

Since last weel I have a strange problem with my Insight.

When I drive at very low speeds (2-3 Km/h) or when I am stopped on a traffic light and then I try to accelerate, I have to push the acceleration pedal a lot more than I used to, before I see any significant result. Yesterday it got even worse, while the car was stopped and I pushed the acceleration pedal to start moving and the engine climbed up to 2500 RPM in a split second and then dropped again to about 1000 RPM before any movement of the car.

During deceleration I have some similar issues. Initially when I used to hit the brakes lightly it was giving me the feeling that the car was only braking with the IMA kinetic energy recovery. Only if I pushed the brake harder I was feeling some resistance, which was meaning that I was starting using the real brakes. The last week even when I try to push the brakes lightly, the real brakes kick in. Then shortly after that I feel the IMA kinetic energy recovery being activated too and I am then then braking more than I want.

During the last 300Km trip I did, I also noticed that I burned about 20%-30% more fuel than I used for the same trip.

Generally the whole car is not as "linear" as it used to during acceleration and braking.

If I try to guess, I would say that there is a problem with the mechanism that acts as the clutch in it's automatic transmission system and that it doesn't really work good under low RPM. Maybe it doesn't even work good under high RPM, which would also explain the higher consumption.

My english might not be very good, but I tried to do my best to explain this issue. I hope someone could understand better the transmission system of Insight and could help me.

numbness4sound · 10-09-2009, 02:10 PM

Hmmm...I would definitely bring it in to the dealership. It's under warranty so any repairs would be of no charge to you.
Sometimes when I hit the gas hard and fast, the car just slowly starts up, which is annoying, but it sounds like you have something more going on.

joecvt · 10-09-2009, 03:38 PM

If you are not under warranty, try to reset the TCM (Transmission Control Module) or even better yet, just disconnect the negative cable from the 12V battery up front and wait about 20 seconds then connect again. The car will show no battery state of charge on initial powerup but don't panic, that is normal. Just let the car idle until you have a few bars show up then go for a ride on slow flat roads until the charge builds up on the gauge. Try not to use too much assist and regen until the gauge is full again.

The TCM has what is called a start clutch memory area and it memorizes the voltage output from the TPS (throttle position sensor) once reset. The start clutch engages as the voltage goes up from the TPS sensor (as you press down on the gas pedal). If the start clutch memory area lost its original TPS voltage setting, the CVT may rev high to engage the start clutch then drop back down once engaged as you mentioned. Over time, even a 0.1 volt change in the TPS output can change the start clutch behaviour. It just may have to be reset.

As for the brakes and regen, they have nothing to do with the CVT itself. Perhaps your brake light switch on the brake pedal needs to be adjusted. Regen should occur when the brake lights are on (assuming that you are traveling fast enough)

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner

Cobb · 10-11-2009, 11:27 PM

Mines is like that when cold. I can put in reverse and it will just sit there for a few seconds before the idle hickups then drops and I start to roll back.

Likewise when going into drive, however to get it to engage I have to blip the throttle and can chirp tires.

The braking too is not linear at all. Its based on the state of charge for the hybrid battery. If its full it will not regen and you got to brake the old fashion way. Likewise if the batttery is warm too.

wannaberetired · 10-29-2009, 01:03 PM

JoeCVT:
You seem to know a lot about the CVT. Now that it's a little cooler out, after work when I back out of a parking spot and put it in drive, it seems like the transmission slips before going. Is it really slipping or is that just some kind of lag time? I checked my fluid level and even though it is clear and hard to see it looked fine. Thanks for your help.

Craig

jpleong · 10-29-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannaberetired

JoeCVT:
You seem to know a lot about the CVT. Now that it's a little cooler out, after work when I back out of a parking spot and put it in drive, it seems like the transmission slips before going. Is it really slipping or is that just some kind of lag time? I checked my fluid level and even though it is clear and hard to see it looked fine. Thanks for your help.

Craig

I'm not Joe but it sounds like you experience the same delay as I do. I notice it when I switch between P->R or R->D or D->R. It feels almost as if the brakes are mechanically lifting and allowing the car to move forward. It has happened ever since I first took possession of the car and, as such, I think it's normal.

JP

joecvt · 10-29-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannaberetired

JoeCVT:
You seem to know a lot about the CVT. Now that it's a little cooler out, after work when I back out of a parking spot and put it in drive, it seems like the transmission slips before going. Is it really slipping or is that just some kind of lag time? I checked my fluid level and even though it is clear and hard to see it looked fine. Thanks for your help.

Craig

The CVT uses fluid pressure to keep the belt at proper tension, to engage start clutch and forward clutch, to engage reverse brake. In R position, the forward clutch fluid pressure is released and reverse brake engaged. The opposite happens when you shift to D. If you accelerate quickly after shifting between R and D, the fluid pressure did not have enough time to hold the forward clutch tight (fully engage) and there will be some slippage.

If you feel it is excessive and you have not changed the CVT fluid in 30K, it may be time to change it. Also, Honda used different fluid in some model years then went back to the CVT fluid they were using earlier, this earlier fluid seems to work better. If you do a search on "Honda reintroduces" you will find this link:

Honda reintroduces CVT specific ATF

Part number for the correct fluid is: 80200-9006

If it just "slips" for a split second and if you are quick on the gas, it is normal but if your fluid change is over due, it should be changed anyway (even if it appears to be at the full mark).

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner