Horn goes on when shifting out of park and stays on.
Here is a little bit different one, my I2 decided it needed to start honking the horn constantly while driving today, once I shift into park it stops. The second I engage the shift release the horn starts honking(and stays on while in anything but park.) I am not at home right now so I unplugged the horn, after finding out that killing the horn via the fuse is a bad idea. The horn and brake lights are on the same fuse in the interior fuse box, pull the fuse no shifty out of park. I am not getting any feed back through the brake lights when I pull the interlock lever and the horn still works normally. I am getting full voltage at the horn, I suspect the trans range sensor but I don't have a manual or tools of any value at this second anybody have an idea?
53k I live in salty conditions.
Chris
__________________
2010 I2 "the silver slope"
2005 Element
lots of cast iron in the basement.
I just thought i would update, I got home and subcribed to the ETM through helm. After spending several hours of going over the ETM and checking several connections in the circuit I concluded that I need to take it to the dealer. Upon hooking up the ground cable for the last time I check the horn just for giggles since I had it unplugged and it had stopped working(a good thing). So I buttoned it back up took it for a spin and the cruise also started working again. Not sure what I did if anything, the only system I did not get to phyiscally checking was the interlock switch, Hondas tests all require the computer, other than phyiscally looking at it. I did engage and disengage the interlock for the shift about 40 times just fiddling around so that may have been it. Electrically that does not make much sense but i have been a maintenance man for over 12 years now I don't regard that much anymore.
For anyone else that may have this problem the horn circuit goes from the fuse to the MICU( multiplexer control unit) and the horn relay then to the horn, the cruise reset/set and cancel switches are also feed by that hot always wire. The brake lights are also fed from that circuit but I never got to check that side.
chris
__________________
2010 I2 "the silver slope"
2005 Element
lots of cast iron in the basement.
This is good to know. Who would think of the horn always staying on. Did you take it to the dealership? If so, what did they say?
No, For multiple reasons, and the problem came back.....
#1 In Wisconsin the dealers are closed on Sunday, its illegal to sell a car and 99% are not open in service either. The problem first occurred Friday afternoon and I was not at home. I work third shift upon returning home I went to bed and promptly went to work. Thats when I figured out the cruise did not work... Saturday hours are only for light service before noon mostly.
#2 I would rather get it done myself, I spent about 10 years in the automotive industry, I also know that most Techs don't like this sort of trouble shooting. It also can get expensive very quickly since I am no longer anywhere near warranty. The more I narrow it down the closer I can get the tech to the problem should I resort to that course of action.
#3 I don't like my purchasing dealers service dept, it has been nothing but bad experiences and unanswered questions. I don't expect service to be cheap, but i don't expect it to have more problems then the domestics I have owned. I am also aware that if I don't use them for anything at all that the level of commitment drops off like a cliff, I understand that the dealer owner relationship is a two way street. That said I think that an oil change and rotate for $79+tax and fees is nuts even if goes 14k between. I also would think that if i paid for a service that it would be done, and that has not been the case in several instances of my paying for inspections etc. I can do an oil change for $30 with mobil one or honda oil and a honda oil filter.
#4 Every time I have taking my car to the servicing dealer I got my car back more broken then when I left it. Plugs broken or missing for covers, scratches in interior pieces, and unfixed problems. One in particular is directly related to this in the shift interlock, which I suspect is the problem now. Also they have not been able since I have owned the car get me another key to work and seem unwilling to take care of it( I would be happy if it just turned). I just did my first oil change on it about 3 weeks ago there were only 2 clips holding the belly pan on whereas there should be around 8, the dealer is the only servicing agent thus far.
#5 I have been very unhappy with the car as of late, the key issue, its always regenerating now with very little to no boost. The mileage dropped down to below 40 mpg, the tires barely made it to 50K and were probably bad at 35k already. This car has been good to me, but I don't think its up the standard of Honda's normal pool of quality. If I am having problems that I would expect to see at 150k thats one thing, but this is not really what I would expect.
I can say that in watching these forums I have seen little or no serious problems with this car. So maybe its just my luck which seems to follow me around in the form of a black cloud.
Contemplating trading it in....
Chris
__________________
2010 I2 "the silver slope"
2005 Element
lots of cast iron in the basement.
Is there any chance that the dealer or a previous owner installed an alarm system? There have been several cases of odd electrical behavior reported here that turned out to be left over parts from a previous alarm installation.
Is there any chance that the dealer or a previous owner installed an alarm system? There have been several cases of odd electrical behavior reported here that turned out to be left over parts from a previous alarm installation.
Negative, I have owned it since it had 50 miles on it. No alarms, in fact no mods or additions of any sort other then a leather wrap on the steering wheel.
At this point it appears to be MICU sticking the horn relay on, or the shift interlock/shift park pin sensor back feeding through it.The first sucks and requires the dealer the second should be easy to figure out, just have to take all the covers off to get at it. Once the suns up the rest of the way I am going to take a look.
Chris
__________________
2010 I2 "the silver slope"
2005 Element
lots of cast iron in the basement.
That said I think that an oil change and rotate for $79+tax and fees is nuts I can do an oil change for $30 with mobil one or honda oil and a honda oil filter.
First off, good for you getting on the HOnda site and buying a sub. to look at the manual and do some troubleshooting yourself.
Second, of course you can go buy oil and filter and do an oil change for $30. How about if you invite everyone in your neighborhood over so you can do their oil changes for free? Better yet, open your own shop and offer free services! That will make your mortgage payment for sure!
Instead of the dealer, have you tried an independant shop that works on Hondas? If they are well equiped they will have the scanner to get into all the systems on your car.
That said I think that an oil change and rotate for $79+tax and fees is nuts I can do an oil change for $30 with mobil one or honda oil and a honda oil filter.
First off, good for you getting on the HOnda site and buying a sub. to look at the manual and do some troubleshooting yourself.
Second, of course you can go buy oil and filter and do an oil change for $30. How about if you invite everyone in your neighborhood over so you can do their oil changes for free? Better yet, open your own shop and offer free services! That will make your mortgage payment for sure!
Instead of the dealer, have you tried an independant shop that works on Hondas? If they are well equiped they will have the scanner to get into all the systems on your car.
Finding a shop or tech is not a problem, finding the problem is the problem.
Actually I work indirectly for a shop, I drive a tow truck on the weekends, we have a full shop but its directly geared for domestic, race car, and medium duty trucks with heavy work as a staple. We don't have our solus (or what ever its called these days) updated to '10 for anything yet let alone import hybrids. I could access a lot of things on my element and other vehicles with it through the OBDII port, my assumption is that insight would also work if we had an update for it. I can self test a number of the systems with simple tools but I come up with no DTC's or problems. Of course now its working today so I am not sure what the H is going on with it. The car seems to think every thing is OK. Unfortunately bad weather kept me from taking the console apart yesterday, hopefully today I can get in there.
As for your points about the money and running a shop, I have worked in the industry for around 18 years in various capacity's mostly on the parts end( so yes I do make my Mortgage payment in part by fixing cars). I know enough that if my customers were willing to pay $69($79 for hybrids)for average car oil change and rotate that I would not have a any customers. Working in any business like this the point is to get the car on the rack, you have loss leaders like oil changes for $30 etc. Although somewhat dated we used to offer oil changes for 21.95 tax at the dealer I worked at for the better part of 10 years. Dealers charge retail price but don't pay anything near that, and they most likely don't use "Honda" oil, unless its the 0w20 Honda oil(not even synthetic) in a bottle. I paid retail prices for that $30 oil change, I could have done better. I did not buy the Honda not expecting to cheap out, I bought the Honda not to have down time I expected to pay more for things(to an extent). But that expectation also included not have problems this early on and not getting run around when I do have a problem.
I really don't like it when someone tells me that the problem is inside the computer and we have to "scan" it, yes its a tool to be used, but nine out of ten times its not a computer related issue. I lose heart when I bring the car in for a sticking interlock solenoid which needs to be lubed and they tell me that we hooked it up to the computer and its fine(unable to duplicate). The computer doesn't care if it sticks but my wife really does.
Honda used to pride itself upon being better and offering service, the stuff I have seen at multiple dealers is no better then domestic dealer I worked for, with one(out of three) great exception, the sales dept.
Would I do my neighbors oil changes for free? sure, but I expect to get something in return based upon there skill sets. Its roughly ten minutes of my life, I spent around that typing this.
One thing that is often misunderstood by techs and service people in general is that if you treat a customer with respect, and not as a dollar sign you will get a customer for life. Simple little things like offering discounts, taking care of simple little 30 second tasks for nothing. Its a hard thing to balance, you cannot give away the shop either, but it can be done.
Chris
__________________
2010 I2 "the silver slope"
2005 Element
lots of cast iron in the basement.
Chris, that was a very right on reply.
I'd be a little surprised if there wasn't a DTC posted somewhere that might give a clue to the source of your problem-IF you had a scanner that could access all the systems in the car. Sounds like you have a good handle on troubelshooting these things. My WAG would be something in the brake light/switch circuit. The brake light switch is a common element in cruise control and shifter interlock. I'd have to go back and read what else doesn't work. Not sure how the horn ties into it all. Does the Insight run the brake light wiring in the hatch hinge? Well, center and license plate lights and wiper motor. Is there anything common there that could give you that wonkyness?
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Horn goes on when shifting out of park and stays on.
