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Old 01-11-2011, 12:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Check out the new Civic with lithium ion batteries!

Also if you read this, look at the new lithium ion batteries that Honda is installing in the hybrid Civics! It looks like nearly all the new Civics will be receiving some form of "ECO-Assist" on them....

A possible battery swap for us Insighters?

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Old 01-30-2011, 04:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'd like a CNG PHEV.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If they stick with the current civic design, thats 144 volts. It will only be backwards swappable for out First Gen owners. If they make it for the crz or 100 volts, then we have a shot.



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Old 01-30-2011, 10:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb View Post
If they stick with the current civic design, thats 144 volts. It will only be backwards swappable for out First Gen owners. If they make it for the crz or 100 volts, then we have a shot.
I think up to now, the HCH had a 158V set-up. The electric motor outputs a little more, with 15Kw, than G1 or G2 (10Kw) Insight. If they keep the same set-up, it will not be possible to swap the battery direclty... well... I leave this to the battery experts in this forum, might be easier than I think...
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think up to now, the HCH had a 158V set-up. The electric motor outputs a little more, with 15Kw, than G1 or G2 (10Kw) Insight. If they keep the same set-up, it will not be possible to swap the battery direclty... well... I leave this to the battery experts in this forum, might be easier than I think...
Early news from a few years ago when Honda was discussing going with lithium, they explained the reason of going to lithium is that it costs less for them to do so. ...which seems the opposite of what you would expect, but its not. They can do it with a smaller battery because todays lithium can dish out power and be charged at much faster rates than our current NiMh cells can. They also don't have to deal with the rapid self-discharge issues of our cylindrical NiMh and might just last longer too if Honda designs their lithium system right and puts a decent quality lithium battery in the car.

The only reason why they have so much capacity with our current NiMh packs is to be able to draw about 100 amps or so from them. We have lithium that can push a burst rate of 100 amps and be 1/6 the capacity, possibly even better from certain companies, however would need 5Ah or so to regen at the same rate. They might cut down maximum regen rate to accommodate a smaller pack or produce a higher voltage pack of smaller cells with a better heat management system. If they put in a heat management system like the one LG Chem is putting in that the Chevy Volt, Ford Focus Electric, and Hyundai Sonata Hybrid are all getting, they could do some pretty crazy stuff without much thermal concern at all.

As far as a swap to one that is not normally designed for those packs, it is possible but will probably require removing the cells and installing them into a fresh design like Peter has done with the three packs he has built so far(two of which have performed very well so far).

I would probably be more inclined to retrofitting a larger capacity pack from one of these production electrics into my car and use MIMA rather than mess with a similar sized or smaller pack from Honda.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I think up to now, the HCH had a 158V set-up. The electric motor outputs a little more, with 15Kw, than G1 or G2 (10Kw) Insight. If they keep the same set-up, it will not be possible to swap the battery direclty... well... I leave this to the battery experts in this forum, might be easier than I think...
That's correct, my 2006 HCH II is 158 V, topping out around 190V (max of 192v) now since the latest sw update, as measured at the IMA battery terminals.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
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What about temperature regulation? If the next gen HCH has the same ineffective setup as the current HCH II, I'd be very wary given the LiON batteries are more temperature sensitive.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:15 AM   #8 (permalink)
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158? Nominal? I saw a guys civic hybrid and the door sticker said 144.

Yeah, dont think having the pack vertical in the back seat is a good setup for cooling.



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Old 02-03-2011, 12:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The 1st Gen Civic hybrid is 144, the 2nd Gen Civic Hybrid has the extra 12 cells to make it 158v.
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Opps, my bad. Wonder how the extra "stick" helps with performance, fuel economy and longivity?



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