cold weather starter activation problem - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum
 
Go Back   Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum > 1st Generation Honda Insight Forum > Honda Insight Forum 1st-Gen Discussion

Insightcentral.net is the premier Honda Insight Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-24-2019, 10:44 AM  
Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 92
Default cold weather starter activation problem

Can someone remind me at what temp the starter is activated on gen1 mt insights? It's 15F now and going subzero for the next couple days. My starter never activates under any circumstance and it's difficult to diagnose except when it's colder than crap. Last summer I pulled the starter and it tested fine and I checked the wiring so I think the problem is with the ECU. Does anyone know how to test further? I'm not real crazy about buying a second ecu when I'm not sure that it will be any better. Is there a relay or something inside the ecu that can be bench tested? Or as an alternative can if I install a remote switch to activate the starter and if I do will the ignition be activated? As-is my car is worthless whenever it gets really cold.

Thanks, Matt
matt2001 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-24-2019, 11:36 AM  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern CT
Posts: 490
Default

Have you tried jump starting the Insight in cold weather, or tried replacing the existing 12V with a fully charged up new one?

I can't tell you at exactly what temperature the 12V starter is supposed to be activated. However, we had a couple days recently, one was about 1F and the other about 5F in the morning when I started the car.

Both mornings, the car started quickly using the 12V battery even though the hybrid pack was only one bar down from max charge.

I had just replaced my 12V battery with a new one, of the spec'd Group 51 size. For whatever it's worth, mine is an AGM type and the rated CCA is a bit lower than what's shown on the oem Honda battery that's been kicking around on my workbench for a couple years. I replaced it because I had been using an undersized AGM in the car - which clearly was used up by now. I bought the small, lightweight AGM used, then used it myself for several years. It never was able to start the car on a cold day but now it also couldn't even keep the car's computer running below about 25F; in the morning I'd find the dash display had shifted from Trip A over to the Lifetime Mileage display.

Last edited by brucepick; 01-24-2019 at 11:55 AM.
brucepick is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2019, 12:37 PM  
Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 92
Default

Thanks Bruce. It's not a battery issue. Since I know the battery, starter, and wiring is fine I'm pretty certain the problem is in the ECU. My car started life in Minnesota so prior to failure the starter was probably activated more often than most. You lucky people who live in milder climates could probably remove your starter all together and never miss it. I'm just trying to figure out a work-around so I can still use my car.
matt2001 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-24-2019, 12:45 PM  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern CT
Posts: 490
Default

Hmmm.
My Gen 1 had an ECU recall. I only found out because I called American Honda to see what information they had on my car. I think the recall was from 2007 and it had never been done when I called Honda in 2017 or so!

800-999-1009
brucepick is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2019, 01:17 PM  
Moderator
 
Rainsux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 4,608
Default

What happens when you turn the IMA off?

Sam
__________________
2000 Citrus
Custom Turbocharger System
MIMA #150
Genesis Charger and Discharger
BumbleBee Battery
OBDIIC&C Gauge
NM license plate KERS
(Kinetic Energy Recovery System)
Alpine Stereo
Scott's front and rear springs
GAZ rear shocks
2003 Lean Burn CVT (Wife's car)
2000 Citrus with aerodynamic extension
2002 Blue getting new engine
Rainsux is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2019, 01:18 PM  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern CT
Posts: 490
Default

Run a wire to put 12V to the starter solenoid. Run it through a momentary contact switch on your dash. That should get the starter to turn. If you use it to crank the starter after putting the key in the "run" position it should start - if all else is as it should be.

or -

You can try a push start. Rolling at 5-10 mph, put it in fourth and let the clutch out briefly. Out and back in. Just enough to spin the engine a bit. It should catch. It doesn't need to be cold to do this but if spark and fuel supply are OK at frigid temperatures, it should start your car on a frigid day. Don't put it in a low gear; the car will lurch and buck.
brucepick is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2019, 01:43 PM  
Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 92
Default

Ok, so if I splice a piggy back connector and a wire from pin 2 of C102 (under middle of dash) and connect momentarily to a low current 12v source (like the cigarette lighter plug) the starter solenoid should activate. Right?

http://www.indoorphin.com/insight/starter_sch.jpg
http://www.indoorphin.com/insight/starter_photo56.jpg
http://www.indoorphin.com/insight/starter_view148.jpg

edit: btw I already swapped the starter cut relay so I know it's good. seems to be the ecm that isn't cooperating.

Last edited by matt2001; 01-24-2019 at 01:47 PM.
matt2001 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2019, 02:06 PM  
Moderator
 
Rainsux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 4,608
Default

What happens if you connect the 12+ battery terminal to the big terminal on the starter solenoid? I'm just trying to verify that the starter will turn over *IN* the car.

Sam
__________________
2000 Citrus
Custom Turbocharger System
MIMA #150
Genesis Charger and Discharger
BumbleBee Battery
OBDIIC&C Gauge
NM license plate KERS
(Kinetic Energy Recovery System)
Alpine Stereo
Scott's front and rear springs
GAZ rear shocks
2003 Lean Burn CVT (Wife's car)
2000 Citrus with aerodynamic extension
2002 Blue getting new engine
Rainsux is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2019, 02:26 PM  
Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 92
Default

It's cold here with snow and ice all over so I'm not real crazy about laying under the car today. Last summer I pulled the starter and tested it on a bench and it was fine. I don't think there are any shims on it or if it is even possible to install it incorrectly so it doesn't mesh with the flywheel correctly. I'm going out in a little while to try the jumper I mentioned above. My wife just called and her Mini roadster spoiler has frozen today and the darn warning blooping sound and dire warning flashing dash display won't stop which is driving her crazy. Guess I'm gonna have to buy a real winter car I hate winter.
matt2001 is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2019, 02:29 PM  
Lifetime Member
 
Atheos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 819
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainsux View Post
What happens if you connect the 12+ battery terminal to the big terminal on the starter solenoid? I'm just trying to verify that the starter will turn over *IN* the car.

Sam
if you do this, make certain the car isn't in gear.
__________________
2000 Citrus - Lithium LTO (+30% current hack) - OBDIIC&C - IMAC&C - McIntosh/Zapco sound system
Atheos is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location (Required)
Where you live
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.