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Old 05-03-2015, 06:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default UK government U-turn over diesel cars after EU sues country over poor air quality

Warning: before I go in to my rant, I would just like to point out that I am generally politically center-field, though I'll vote where I can save my tax , or where my tax goes to pay for things that make the UK a better place for all of it's citizens.

Rant:


This is a fantastic example of how the UK is mandated to enforce EU policy, loosing sovereign ability to rule, and leaving Joe public to pick up the tab.

1980s: No emissions based policy to speak of.

1990s: Towards the end EU goes crazy over CO2 implied global warming, and focuses on policy towards reducing CO2 levels.

2000s: In 2001, government introduces vehicle taxation based on CO2 emissions, with the general promotion of diesel due to lower CO2 in general per mile... backed by EU - due to main diesel manufacturers being Germany and to a lesser extent France and Italy. Also, another 8 or so additional Eastern European countries join EU.

Late 2000s and beyond: Huge influx of EU based migration to UK, bringing all their diesel cars along with them.

2015: EU U-turn on diesel, as they now noticed that CO2 isn't the only exhaust gas to worry about.

*These are based on basic time scales and some generalisation, but the main points are concrete fact. If you bought a diesel in the last 5 years, you will be screwed (either by poor resale value, or likely additional taxation imminent).

This highlights the contrast in EU based emissions laws Vs US (in particular CA clean air laws). Not that either are perfect, but there is likely to be a happy medium in here somewhere in the medium term before the long term solution of electric/ hydrogen fuel cell.

Point in case: UK dictated to by a crazily bureaucratic and overly-costly EU central government with no idea of how to govern anything. A lack of presenting the correct or reliable unbiased data to inform policy. The tax-paying public pays for the lot, every time. EU membership of the UK has not been voted on by UK public since joining in 1973 (when the world communicated by CB radios, used rust-covered tape to view video, there was not internet or computers).

I agree with EU membership as a united trade agreement between members (as was originally voted on), but nothing else. We are not the United States of Europe (and if we are this has never been voted on), we are a bunch of largely good countries with vastly different philosophies towards social policy and government central planning. Though we do all produce stuff that we need to sell.

How much did the EU contribute to developing battery technology or electric vehicles: Likely minimal to zero - this has been left to the Japanese and US mainly.

How many lobster dinners and 1st class air tickets did the EU supply for various members and conferences: likely a very high number.


Diesel car drivers 'betrayed' as EU cracks down on Britain over air pollution - Telegraph


UK General Election 7th May 2015 (leading to wholesale political stalemate). A brilliant time for UK politics (not):

ElectionForecast.co.uk
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Old 05-03-2015, 06:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default UK Supreme Court decision

The EU is fining Britain for failing to meet the 2010 targets for Nox air quality, London will not meet the 2010 target until 2030.

The UK Supreme Court decision came from a case submitted by ClientErath, The Supreme Court has ruled in favour of ClientErath and as such a new plan must be submitted by December 2015 to tackle the deficiency in air quality.

In the 1950s air borne smog was fixed by banning of coal burning in domestic homes.
Lead in Petrol was eliminated in the 1990s
Air pollution by solvents in paint etc were fixed in the 1980s, River pollution was tackled at the same era
So that leaves diesel exhaust pollution must be tackled by 2020.

The real villains are the manufacturers who programmed the ECU in the diesel car to give exceptional figures in the rolling road test, but roadside tests proved their emissions are 10 times greater. So how about a USA style class action against the manufacturers for misleading the consumer?

The Nox is a problem in built up areas, so expect disincentives to diesel cars being driven in major cities such as London Birmingham Leeds, Manchester etc. Outside little will change

The change to vehicle taxation "VED" based on emissions of Co2 were introduced in 2001 by Labour Chancellor Gordon Brown, in hindsight Brown has admitted that he expected the manufacturers to play a level game and improve their cars, this has not happened, the modern turbo charged diesel is developed for performance and research has shown their real world pollution figures are comparable with the non-turbo diesels of twenty years ago.

Do I have any sympathy for anyone who drives a big diesel engined car such a a Range Rover, Audi BMW etc who may have to pay 100 a day to enter a London low emission zone? No, none whatsoever.

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Old 05-04-2015, 02:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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No, I have no sympathy for those people either..... none whatsoever.

The issue I have was that Co2 was singled out as the only thing that mattered, to such an extent it changed the entire landscape for car manufacture.

The switch to diesel (and I mean the global switch, including those with small, low end diesels as well) was promoted as the way to go through what is now a clear and incorrect policy direction.

Haulage, public transport and taxis likely account for the majority of the problem, and the only diesel I own is small, 11 years old now and has 120K on the clock (so I've had my value, but will continue to use it).

But there are major problems here. The only cars that will be affordable to the masses will be tiny petrol cars. Large cars already produce too much CO2 to be affordable to run. The get-around was to get the family car as a 2.0 TDI in some iteration - but this will likely soon become less of an option - so I personally do not see where the answer lies.

There are too few hybrid and electric options. I saw this happening, and opted for an I2 as a replacement family car from our old RAV4, which was costing 255 a year to tax, and 65 to fill up. The I2 has dramatically reduced that bill, and I am happy to drive such a clean car.

However, I have been hanging on to my 13 year old Celica and 11 year old Yaris for a long time now, because the car that I wanted to replace them with keeps becoming impossible to decide upon.

My choices have kept changing, because I now only do a fairly small yearly mileage, but when I do use the car, it tends to be a long trip for work (I am based in the city of London, but we do a lot of consultancy for regional public sector providers).

My preferred choice was going to be a Lexus IS220D, but this would not seem sensible now. The IS250 falls in to a fairly high tax bracket. So my choices moving away from diesel fall in to the dull and uninspired.

I don't particularly want another hybrid, as I would prefer not to put all my eggs in one technology basket. I do want an electric car, but the Leaf is the only real player. However, it is unsuitable for the driver who does relatively few trips, but all those trips are long.
I could make a Leaf work by using it when I need to, and using the I2 (my wife's car for long journeys). My Yaris D4D does up to 500 miles per tank, and it probably beats the I2 on the motorway actually for MPG.

We have a 6 week old baby, and both the Celica and Yaris lack Isofix, so they are not an option for the moment. Also, neither have cruise control for the long journeys.

In essence, my decision is to continue to use my Celica and Yaris (running two old cars is still cheaper than buying new, and they are unlikely to both go wrong at the same time)...

When I get either the Celica or Yaris D4D tested, I am constantly told to hang on to them, as they both fall under fairly lax emission standards (and both pass every year with great emissions)... but really I would like to replace both with a newer car that is probably an estate/ wagon, but I want something that is fun to drive, and I can't seem to find the happy medium. My choices were either a Civic Tourer DTEC (diesel, and now the enemy of the state), or Auris Wagon hybrid (boring to drive). All the other petrol cars are not significantly better than my Celica on MPG. I have recently looked at a Lexus GS450h - but the battery consumes a lot of the boot/ trunk, and this is a hard car to park in the small UK spaces we have - and would be costly to repair and service probably; but I do like the thing.

If I could dust off my crystal ball and peer in to it, perhaps I could fathom what to do.

I am 100% behind the clean air proposals, but this has been known for years; why does the poop hit the fan without the requisite range of sensible options?

Looks like I'll have the Celica for another few years now, which is no issue, as I really like the car - unfortunately no cruise though. Perhaps a small price to pay for a load of muppets running the show.

I have also heard that I will be unable to take an old petrol in to London soon (not itself an issue, but this will likely roll-out to other low emission zones soon). If I ever decide to take a vehicle in to London, it's my Honda Scooter.

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Old 09-19-2015, 08:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default VW/Audi admit to Diesel Emmisions Cheating

VW/Audi have admiited to USA EPA investigators that 2009 to 2015 VW /Audi diesel cars have a software cheat in the ECU which allowed them to sell 482,000 non-compliant diesel cars in breach of the USA clean Air act


EPA Accuses VW of Cheating Smog Testing on 482,000 Cars | WIRED

Volkswagen cheated on emission tests with tricky software - EPA ? RT USA

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ssions-testing

VW could be fined up to $37000 per car

I guess they are not the only car company with similar secrets to hide.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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There also has been a RECALL on the above mentioned vehicles in the US.

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Old 09-20-2015, 02:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default VW Diesel emmissions compliance

A recall is described in the Notice of Violation issued to VW.

The Notice of Violation is here:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/in_use...nce_letter.htm.

The recall was not successful, the revised software did not adequately control the exhaust emissions to to meet the required limits

The VW forums are debating this matter and include an allegation by VW of an order to their dealers to suspend the buy back or resale of the affected models

Environmentists looking into Nox pollution have suspected the use of such "software defeat devices" in diesel vehicles for several years.

This is the possibly the first legal and public admission of the use of such "tricks" by a manufacturer.

VW are probably not the only culprit, and it is probably a European-wide issue too

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Old 09-20-2015, 11:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phb10186 View Post
I do want an electric car, but the Leaf is the only real player. However, it is unsuitable for the driver who does relatively few trips, but all those trips are long.
Have you considered a BMW i3 REx? You'd be able to drive on electricity alone for ~75 miles with the range extender engine taking you another ~80 miles before needed a gasoline refill. A bit spendy, but its operating costs should save you a fair amount of money, and you should be able to drive it into the center of London without concern. A very nice adaptive cruise control is included with the Tech Package. I am happy with the BEV version so far, but its range is no better than that of the Leaf, so it might not be ideal for you.
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Old 09-21-2015, 12:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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This is BS. Diesel IS the superior fuel. Always has been, always will be. It's just big oil's way of pushing their agenda.
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Old 09-21-2015, 01:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Modern pertrol engines tend to blow as much carbon black particles into the air as old Diesel cars.

Which means: they seem to be cleaner than Diesel cars, but you still get lung cancer.
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Old 09-21-2015, 06:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default VW shares drop 20%

The admission of the defeat device is affecting the shares:

It is unlikely VW /Audi are the only manufacturer with such a secret to hide.

Volkswagen Halts U.S. Sales of Certain Diesel Cars - WSJ
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