Honda Fuel Cell FCX - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum
 
Go Back   Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum > Hybrid and Alternative Fuel Forum > Insight and Honda News

Insightcentral.net is the premier Honda Insight Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-02-2003, 10:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 679
Default Honda Fuel Cell FCX

Here's a re-post from our News page that may be of interest to Insight owners. Honda was the first manufacturer to deliver a fleet of commercial fuel cell vehicles:
Last December, Honda delivered a fleet of hydrogen-powered FCXs to the City of Los Angeles. The FCX was the first fuel cell vehicle to receive U.S. government aproval for commercialization. The FCX utilizes Honda's own independently developed high-efficiency, high-output ultra-capacitor energy storage system to achieve powerful, responsive driving performance. The layout of the powertrain's structural components has also been optimized to attain a spacious interior with room for four adults in a compact body that maintains a high level of collision safety performance no matter what the crash direction. Honda initially plans a limited market release of approximately thirty vehicles over the first two to three years in Japan and the U.S. combined.
__________________
Benjamin

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
benjamin is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-03-2003, 06:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mid Missouri
Posts: 91
Send a message via ICQ to Thorian Send a message via AIM to Thorian Send a message via MSN to Thorian Send a message via Yahoo to Thorian
Default

It may be just me But Am I the only one that thinks that Fuel Cells are a waste of energy

Generate electricity -> produce hydrogen (electrolosys) -> Transport Hydrogen-> produce electricity -> drive

where as Conventional electrics

Generate electricity -> Charge batteries -> Drive

Or my Favorite Idea

A Paralell Hybrid using a Diesel generator (Burning Bio Diesel) driving an electric motor ( like an electric conversion kit with out all the batteries )
__________________
It is easy to think out side the box when it never really existed in the firstplace.
Thorian is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2003, 06:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Carmel Valley (San Diego), CA
Posts: 113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorian
It may be just me But Am I the only one that thinks that Fuel Cells are a waste of energy

Generate electricity -> produce hydrogen (electrolosys) -> Transport Hydrogen-> produce electricity -> drive

where as Conventional electrics

Generate electricity -> Charge batteries -> Drive

Or my Favorite Idea

A Paralell Hybrid using a Diesel generator (Burning Bio Diesel) driving an electric motor ( like an electric conversion kit with out all the batteries )
i do agree with you. but when the average consumer wants quick re-fuels and longer distances, hydrogen is closer to those demands than direct electricity. i think
Allnighte is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-04-2003, 04:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,240
Default

You don't need to generate electricity to produce hydrogen. They will get it from gasoline. Down the road maybe yes, then they will use straight Hydrogen. But until we can get longer mileage out of pure electric cars, Hydrogen as a fuel will have to do. Plus electric only cars need heavy, large storage cells, while Hydrogen cells are smaller.
Resist is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 03-04-2003, 11:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lewisville, Texas USA Drive 2000 5-speed Insight
Posts: 804
Default FCV engines don't have to be as large

I recall an article that Ford had an expermental FCV Tararus. While the internal combustion engine is 135 hp., the FCV version needed only 100 hp for the same performance. Maybe someone could clarify.
__________________
(2000-2015, totaled - best car I ever had) Lifetime mpg: 65.3, 242,000 miles, MIMA #40, CalPod
Delta Flyer is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 03-05-2003, 11:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mid Missouri
Posts: 91
Send a message via ICQ to Thorian Send a message via AIM to Thorian Send a message via MSN to Thorian Send a message via Yahoo to Thorian
Default

Granted I like the Idea of Fuel Cells after all Hydrogen is safe ( The Hindenburg's Bag was Painted with a Aluminum Magnesium <rocket fuel> Paint. I also was reading that you can use a FCV to Power your House as a Generator. And Coleman Is starting to release Fuel cell UPS that uses either a cylander purchaced at any industrial gas company or smaller consumer size cylanders (propane torch sized). Oh well any Power that saves oil is good I guess

Carl
__________________
It is easy to think out side the box when it never really existed in the firstplace.
Thorian is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 03-05-2003, 11:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 498
Default

[quote="Thorian"]Oh well any Power that saves oil is good I guess /quote]

Yes, but as Resist pointed out, at least for the forseeable future most of the hydrogen will be generated from fossile fuels. Either in centralized plants or in on-board reformers that some of the concept vehicles have.

The overall efficiency of the system is much lower if you put the combination of reformer, fuel-cell and electric motor instead of the internal combustion engine. Especially the reformer has very low efficiency, it needs a lot of energy to produce the hydrogen that you later use to generate that energy plus some to drive. The reformer also emits just as much CO2 as a gas engine burning the same amount of fuel would.
__________________
Armin
2000 Insight 3085
MYBRID
Armin is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 03-05-2003, 06:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,281
Send a message via ICQ to Aaron Cake Send a message via Yahoo to Aaron Cake
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resist
You don't need to generate electricity to produce hydrogen. They will get it from gasoline. Down the road maybe yes, then they will use straight Hydrogen. But until we can get longer mileage out of pure electric cars, Hydrogen as a fuel will have to do. Plus electric only cars need heavy, large storage cells, while Hydrogen cells are smaller.
Why not use electrolosys and supply the electricity via geo-thermal, wind, solar or even (gasp) nuclear? Significantly more efficient then reforming oil/gas/methane/etc.

As far as pure electric, the EV1 will go 130 miles on the NiMH pack. NiZn batteries would result in double that. How far do you want to go in one drive?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2000 Insight:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, 5 Speed, "144VOLTS" Plates, BlackVue DR650GW-2CH Dashcam

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aaron Cake is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 03-05-2003, 11:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 679
Default

Well, if there is no convenient recharging station, he might want to go much farther... or would have to abandon his car halfway enroute to its destination. I know you realize this but with the addition of lengthy recharging times, your average consumer would not buy a pure EV.
Benjamin
__________________
Benjamin

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
benjamin is offline   Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2003, 08:35 AM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 51
Default

I agree that Hydrogen produced from breaking up natural gas (leaving carbon gases that add to global warmiing), or from using electrolysis to split water (was the original electricity produced cleanly?) seem like bad ideas. What I did read that sounds exciting is using Hydrogen gas as an energy storage device. That is instead of building huge batteries to store electricty produced from sources like wind or solar, why not use the extra electricity to produce hydrogen that can be used in the fuel cells to power our cars or other such devices. I have this vision of getting myself off both the electrical grid and the so called gas grid by having a home with a wind turbine and or solar cells providing electricty for my house and storing the rest into hydrogen that ran my car. Obviously this is still just a vision unless I hit the lottery. Hopefully the technology will become common and the prices will go down.
lethostigma is offline   Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:13 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.