New Jazz / Fit Hybrid and other interesting facts - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum
 
Go Back   Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum > Hybrid and Alternative Fuel Forum > Insight and Honda News

Insightcentral.net is the premier Honda Insight Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-06-2005, 08:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Devon, UK
Posts: 1,658
Default New Jazz / Fit Hybrid and other interesting facts

Recently have been able to gain the following news:

The revised Jazz / Fit being introduced in 2007 will have an IMA/Hybrid version available. The Jazz/Fit will be sold in the American market for the first time as well.

From 2006 all IMA cars will only be available with CVT transmission. I do not believe this applies to the Insight and relates to the ability of the latest IMA technology to close all cylinders of the engine whilst on the move.

Insight facts I wasn't previously aware of:

There is a trickle charge of the 12V battery only during idle stop or if the 12V battery falls below 9.6V. Hence IMA difficulties if you have a 'bad' 12V battery as power is partly being diverted to the 12V rather than the IMA pack.

Using electric power steering (EPS) rather than conventional power steering increased efficiency of the Insight by 3%.

The efficiency of the Insight was gained proportionally from - Body Technologies (35%), IMA (30%) and Engine Technologies (35%). OK, this last fact wasn't that interesting
__________________
2005 Insight, UK Spec Silver 5 speed with Grid Charger, IMA C&C, Alpine stereo & subwoofer & iPod link, Focal component speakers, rear Gaz shocks & Matiz springs, Shark Fin aerial, sound deadened rear shelf, 'InsightCentral' reg plates
Also own 2011 Mk2 Insight ES. Previous owner of 1999 Japanese Silver 5sp, 2001 UK Citrus 5sp & 2000 Japanese Red CVT
Honda Insight - An extraordinary car for ordinary people
The Citrus Smoothie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-07-2005, 03:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tidewater, VA
Posts: 49
Default

Very interesting, thanks for bringing us all the news.

It's great to hear there will be a Jazz/Fit hybrid, maybe it will also help motivate Toyota to make a Echo/Yaris/Vitz hybrid. The smallest engine in the current Jazz is a 1.3L i-DSI VTEC that is almost the same as the Civic hybrid's engine, it lacks a few things and obviously the IMA components. I'm wondering if we'll see that Civic hybrid engine in the 400 pound lighter Jazz. For fuel economy, it almost only makes sense to pair a smaller engine with the IMA so hopefully we'll see a revised Insight's 1.0L IMA engine. It should be able to turn out an acceptable acceleration rate, provided they use the usual hybrid weight saving tricks (aluminum hood, alloy wheels, etc).

My quick and dirty calculations indicate that a Jazz hybrid's combined mpg would fall in almost exactly between the Insight and Civic hybrid (because its weight is right between the two). Taking the UK combined mpg numbers and converting to US gallons resulted in: Insight 67.5, Civic hybrid 47, and Jazz 38.5. The Insight and Civic have an almost identical ton mpg (weight in tons times mpg) so I raised the Jazz's to it (62.x) and resulted in 56 mpg. A bit of a weight loss for the hybrid version and the 5-6% improvement in the revised IMA could yield a 61 combined mpg. Roughly 10% lower than an Insight and maybe at a 20% lower price.

Then again, the US would probably see a 1.5L engine standard (anything less would be criticised to death), so even the 1.3L IMA engine would offer a decent improvement and bolt right in.

Do you happen to know if 2007 is a Europe specific date or worldwide? There have been so many rumors circulating about a revised edition. The speculation concerning just what exactly will come to the US next spring is absolutely maddening.
Romir is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-07-2005, 03:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 1,819
Default

"From 2006 all IMA cars will only be available with CVT transmission."

I really hope that's not true. If it is, I'm either going to have to keep the Insight for a long, long time, or figure out how to do a transmission transplant. Automatics should be considered assistive technology for the disabled.

"Using electric power steering (EPS) rather than conventional power steering increased efficiency of the Insight by 3%."

OK, but how much did it decrease efficiency over non-powered steering?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
james is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-07-2005, 05:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 4,948
Default

Sounds like Honda has decided that the additional dimension for IMA load control that a CVT allows is the lesser of the two "evils".



__________________
02 5spd, 170k+Miles
Web: Hot Air Intake & Gauge lights peskiness Mod

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Insightful Trekker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-08-2005, 01:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tidewater, VA
Posts: 49
Default

Honda improving the computer control for the CVT is good news in the long run. IMA cars could definitely benefit from more refined software to adjust all the amazing hardware on the fly.
Romir is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-09-2005, 08:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 498
Default Re: New Jazz / Fit Hybrid and other interesting facts

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Citrus Smoothie
There is a trickle charge of the 12V battery only during idle stop or if the 12V battery falls below 9.6V.
This sounds interesting! Can you tell me more? Where did you find this? What does the trickle charge look like (current? is it constant or pulsed?)

I wonder hwo this relates to my observation of DC-DC converter behavior. In all my tests, it was basically on or off. When on, it is putting out constant 14V DC, charging the 12V battery at whatever current it needs to hold that voltage. Once the current drops below a threshold of a few Amps, the DC-DC shuts off and the 12V battery supplies whatever small loads there are, i.e. radio. When voltage drops below around 12V, the DC-DC goes back on. Repeat.

On the flipside, I found that the DC-DC refuses to start if the 12V battery is deep-discharged. I had drained mine (leaving the lights on) once. Managed to start the engine, but no DC-DC converter until after I charged the 12V using an AC charger. I just connected the charge for a few seconds, bumping up the 12V system voltage. The DC-DC came on and took over charging the 12V battery after I disconnected the AC charger.

Any thoughts?
__________________
Armin
2000 Insight 3085
MYBRID
Armin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-10-2005, 09:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Coventry, United Kingdom
Posts: 51
Default Re: New Jazz / Fit Hybrid and other interesting facts

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Citrus Smoothie
Recently have been able to gain the following news:

The revised Jazz / Fit being introduced in 2007 will have an IMA/Hybrid version available. The Jazz/Fit will be sold in the American market for the first time as well.

From 2006 all IMA cars will only be available with CVT transmission. I do not believe this applies to the Insight and relates to the ability of the latest IMA technology to close all cylinders of the engine whilst on the move.
That's good news, I thought the Jazz would be perfect for Honda's anticipated 'baby IMA'. I would be up for one (unless a small engined diesel hybrid was released sooner).

I have also heard that the CRX is to be re-introduced to the US, probably in next gen Civic Si guise - or how about a 2 door Fit/Jazz with IMA
__________________
It'll take you places, but never get you anywhere...
stoner is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2005, 10:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 489
Default Re: New Jazz / Fit Hybrid and other interesting facts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armin
On the flipside, I found that the DC-DC refuses to start if the 12V battery is deep-discharged. I had drained mine (leaving the lights on) once. Managed to start the engine, but no DC-DC converter until after I charged the 12V using an AC charger. I just connected the charge for a few seconds, bumping up the 12V system voltage. The DC-DC came on and took over charging the 12V battery after I disconnected the AC charger.

Any thoughts?
The control electronics for the battery pack require power from the 12 volt battery to function. So, if the 12 volt is dead, you can't use the battery pack for anything, including starting the car. This would logically also involve charging since the control electronics are required to charge the battery pack. (hidden or forced charging) Without that charging, the DC-DC won't charge the 12 volt, so even if you get the car to start the IMA electronics won't fire up, because it still doesn't have any power from the 12 volt.
Foxpaw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-07-2005, 10:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tidewater, VA
Posts: 49
Default

On the subject of next years Fit in the states, Autoweek is reporting this:

Quote:
Fit or Jazz: American Honda Motor Co. will import a variation of the front-wheel-drive subcompact Honda Fit or Jazz. The Fit is sold in Japan; the Jazz is marketed in Europe. The vehicle is due to arrive here in the spring or summer of 2006 as a 2007 model, and it will be slotted below the Civic. Sources say it will be powered by a 1.5-liter engine, equipped with dual overhead camshafts. A hybrid version is likely.
I'd now wager that Honda will equip the Fit hybrid with an improved 1.0-liter Insight engine. The improvements to the engine and IMA system should be enough to handle the extra weight. A 60 mpg car that seats four, and without the exotic construction price.

Toyota has also just confirmed it will release a Jazz/Yaris based car next spring too. A version with their idle stop feature would likely be rated at 50mpg. Blurb from Autoweek:

Quote:
Echo: This underachieving subcompact sedan gets replaced by the European-market Yaris this fall. The Echo name will be retired, but it is not known what name will be used. A sedan and a five-door hatchback will be offered. This 2006 vehicle likely will be powered by a 1.5-liter engine developing about 110 hp.
It'll be nice to see small, reliable, inexpensive, and high mileage vehicles from Honda and Toyota again!
Romir is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:15 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.