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Old 02-24-2019, 07:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Electric Turbo After Failed NiMH Cells

I found this thread so intriguing that I joined the forum. I'm considering getting an Insight with failed battery pack (because they're dirt cheap) and applying my own turbo design. I read almost all 23 pages of this thread but didn't see an answer to my question, so here goes. Is there any reason that the IMA-based alternator design could not be applied to a 24VDC system?
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clunker View Post
I found this thread so intriguing that I joined the forum. I'm considering getting an Insight with failed battery pack (because they're dirt cheap) and applying my own turbo design. I read almost all 23 pages of this thread but didn't see an answer to my question, so here goes. Is there any reason that the IMA-based alternator design could not be applied to a 24VDC system?
It could totally work. Just get a Mean Well HRP-600-24 or 1000-24 instead of the 600-12 or 15.

EDIT: Welcome to the forums!

Be advised that you probably won't be able to top the batteries off 100% as the 600-24 will likely top out at ~27v and ideally you'd be at 28-29v. It should work well enough though.
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I remember Mr. Perkins put a system on a sports car in England. Just for the tax breaks to make the car a hybrid. Expensive sports car .
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by clunker View Post
I found this thread so intriguing that I joined the forum. I'm considering getting an Insight with failed battery pack (because they're dirt cheap) and applying my own turbo design. I read almost all 23 pages of this thread but didn't see an answer to my question, so here goes. Is there any reason that the IMA-based alternator design could not be applied to a 24VDC system?

I'm curious why you would want to convert the electrical system to 24VDC. Is there some advantage to doing that?
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It could totally work. Just get a Mean Well HRP-600-24 or 1000-24 instead of the 600-12 or 15.

EDIT: Welcome to the forums!

Be advised that you probably won't be able to top the batteries off 100% as the 600-24 will likely top out at ~27v and ideally you'd be at 28-29v. It should work well enough though.
That is good news! My electric turbo will require two lead-acid batteries wired in series, and using an available 10kW IMA as an alternator seems like a no-brainer. The turbo motor will leave the exhaust unrestricted but draw some current, so I will need a stout alternator. Thanks for the info.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm curious why you would want to convert the electrical system to 24VDC. Is there some advantage to doing that?
He asked if it could be applied to a 24vdc system

If he wants to convert the INSIGHT system to 24 volts, its possible but I'm sure the stock ECU and components would not enjoy it. So he'd likely want to step voltage down for all of those things.

IF he wants to apply the IMA based alternator design to a 24 volt system, another issue is that with this power supply there's not much output at idle for a 12 volt system. RPM would need a slight bump, I'm sure, to effectively charge low batteries in a 24 volt system. I'm not sure.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by clunker View Post
That is good news! My electric turbo will require two lead-acid batteries wired in series, and using an available 10kW IMA as an alternator seems like a no-brainer. The turbo motor will leave the exhaust unrestricted but draw some current, so I will need a stout alternator. Thanks for the info.
Clunker,

The only "electric turbos" I've seen that are effective are based on 48 volt systems, as found in a few cars made by, what was it, volvo, or VW?

Here's a link:
https://autoweek.com/article/car-new...rger-explained

The other "electric turbos" have been debumked many times.

If you could get your hands on one of these electric turbos made by an OEM it'd surely provide a small boost, atleast at low RPMs, they're designed mostly for spool up of main turbo(s).
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm curious why you would want to convert the electrical system to 24VDC. Is there some advantage to doing that?
Sorry I missed your post before my last response. The turbo design completely eliminates any interaction with the exhaust system. It is powered exclusively by a high-torque, high-speed 24VDC motor. The advantage is an electronically-controlled boost that synchronizes with fuel delivery (completely independent of engine speed). No more turbo lag. If this sounds familiar, it's because Ferrari recently patented it, but I came up with the idea years ago. I don't want to hijack this thread, but that's my reasoning for needing 24V.
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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and using an available 10kW IMA as an alternator seems like a no-brainer.
Let's assume your idea of using the IMA to charge the twin 12v battery works, 10kW is about 13.4 HP.

To get 13HP out of the Insight's gas engine to drive the 10kw IMA motor, you'll be revving the engine at 2000rpm or above, not accounting for energy lost in heat during the transfer.






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The advantage is an electronically-controlled boost that synchronizes with fuel delivery (completely independent of engine speed).
Adding boost means the engine will be operate outside of its parameters setup by the manufacturer. What are you planning to do to the fuel management and ignition advance/retard?
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Last edited by tryingbe; 02-25-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 02-25-2019, 02:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Electric Turbo After Failed NiMH Cells

For the sake of not hijacking another thread, I'm starting a new one.

I am planning to buy a 1st gen Insight and modify it with an experimental turbo. Forum members on another thread have been discussing using the IMA as an alternator to charge the 12V battery after the NiMH battery pack has failed, and this is sort of a tangent from that thread.

I plan to run two 12V lead-acid batteries, wired in series to achieve 24V. The added voltage will be enough to power a high-speed 24VDC motor, connected to a Garrett GT15 compressor (totally independent of the exhaust). Other than a few components, the rest of the car's electrical will still run off 12V power. Since the Insight is already drive-by-wire, it should be a simple bit of electronics to synchronize compressor motor speed with fuel delivery.

As with any turbo modification, the conversion may involve additional changes (larger injectors, disabling certain ECU functions, retarded timing, etc.). All of this has been successfully done before with conventional turbos, so I'm not too worried about complications. I'm not looking to build a performance car. Probably just a 5 PSI boost to compensate for the lack of an IMA.

To answer a few questions from the other thread. 24VDC with 1,000 CCA (24kW) is overkill to power the turbo motor (remember this is only a 1.0L engine), so I don't see any reason to bump up to 48V.

tryingbe
A totally stock Insight already uses the IMA as its sole alternator, and it has to charge both the 12v lead-acid battery and the 144V NiMH pack. I consider eliminating the NiMH pack and adding a second 12V battery to be an even swap as far as demands on the 10kW alternator. Based on other turbo conversions and dyno testing, a 5 PSI boost is more than enough to compensate for the loss in IMA power. No doubt there will be risks to the 3-cylinder engine like blown head gaskets, but that's why you start on the conservative side and accept the consequences if you blow the engine.
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