Toyota MGR? - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum
 
Go Back   Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum > 1st Generation Honda Insight Forum > Modifications and Technical Issues

Insightcentral.net is the premier Honda Insight Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-10-2019, 04:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 917
Default Toyota MGR?

I've been trying to look around the forums to see if was anyone discussing it, but I couldn't find anything. I'm curious if anyone has played with the idea of using a Toyota MGR. They are found in the back of the Lexus RX400h/RX450h and the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, both utilizing a 288v battery pack.

Is this just something too difficult to control or power? Just curious since I only came across one person playing around with one a few years back.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=78540

The specs on the motor:
Weight: 40kg (88lbs)
Max Power: 50kw (68hp)
Max Tq: 140Nm (103ft-lb)
Type: Permanent magnet motor
Max Volts: AC 650v
Gear Reduction: 6.859:1

Edit: I forgot to mention that the MGR is a self contained motor with a differential and gear reduction built into the side housing with axle stubs coming out. The gear fluid is self contained, but doesn't look hard to tap to add a cooler for the setup.
__________________
My Daily: 2000 5MT no A/C
My Project Car: 1985 Celica V6.

Last edited by Sigma Projects; 06-10-2019 at 04:59 PM.
Sigma Projects is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-10-2019, 07:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 458
Default

What are you thinking of doing with it?
__________________
2004 MT Red, 143K miles "new", ~158K now, 2014 battery - rescued from the wrecker and humming along happily!
*sean* is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2019, 08:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 134
Default

That looks like a fantastic pure EV motor. I wonder what the gearing is like and is it efficient running at highway speeds?




OR, how about an AWD insight!
HiSPL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-11-2019, 02:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Somewhere in Wisconsin
Posts: 515
Default

Paula and Sabrina (from EcoModder) have wired one up to their DIY controller and drove around, think they put the project notes on endless sphere

Yep in your initial post
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...p?f=34&t=78540

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...mgr-29878.html

Also I think the mgr under an Insight is the most likely path forward to EV

I strongly recommend looking for a Prius AWD at a wrecker, could be interesting
Attached Images
File Type: png D34DCAF8-48E2-4136-AC09-C490CAEC8931.png (526.8 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by rmay635703; 06-11-2019 at 05:38 PM.
rmay635703 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2019, 05:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Somewhere in Wisconsin
Posts: 515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiSPL View Post
That looks like a fantastic pure EV motor. I wonder what the gearing is like and is it efficient running at highway speeds?




OR, how about an AWD insight!
Weight cooling speed

Itís small, light and efficient but likely would overheat used as a highway troller
rmay635703 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2019, 10:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 917
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by *sean* View Post
What are you thinking of doing with it?
I think it would be quite fun to have one in place of where the spare tire is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiSPL View Post
That looks like a fantastic pure EV motor. I wonder what the gearing is like and is it efficient running at highway speeds?
OR, how about an AWD insight!
The gearing on the one I posted is 6.859:1. The image rmay635703 posted shows for the AWD prius it has a 10.487:1 ratio.
I've read about concerns about overheating while running continuously, but many have suggested tapping in an oil cooler which is completely doable, I've done it with other differentials. I like it because it's relatively inexpensive, it is a complete unit and not overly powerful but seems powerful enough to match that of the ICE of the Insight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
Paula and Sabrina (from EcoModder) have wired one up to their DIY controller and drove around, think they put the project notes on endless sphere
Yep in your initial post
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...p?f=34&t=78540
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...mgr-29878.html
Also I think the mgr under an Insight is the most likely path forward to EV
I strongly recommend looking for a Prius AWD at a wrecker, could be interesting
Oh I didn't know about the Prius AWD. I will check out the comodder forum link.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
Weight cooling speed
It’s small, light and efficient but likely would overheat used as a highway troller
I think cooling it might not be as big of a problem, but it seems like trying to run an electric motor at freeway speeds is less efficient than just running an ICE. Like how Honda has setup their current Insight with the single gear engagement for the engine at freeway speeds. But hill climbs, short bursts, etc. sounds like it would be amazing. And because of how light our cars are it probably could work as a low speed EV mode option.


Edit: Second look at the rear motor in the AWD Prius it doesn't look that great for what I'm interested in as what I'm reading is that Toyota added that feature to the Prius for snow use, where it's primarily used below 6mph. It did say that it helps out with some punch, but at 5kw it's half the power of the IMA motor. Also considering the Prius AWD just arrived at our shores makes it not really affordable option I would think, although I could be wrong.
__________________
My Daily: 2000 5MT no A/C
My Project Car: 1985 Celica V6.

Last edited by Sigma Projects; 06-11-2019 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Prius rear electric motor
Sigma Projects is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2019, 11:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Somewhere in Wisconsin
Posts: 515
Default

The Prius MGR is induction meaning that much greater power than rated at much lower voltages are possible especially if you actively cool

The MGR for the Prius is actually small enough it could fit under an Insight
The highlander unit is quite large by comparison, uses PM and thus requires high voltages to spin at any rate of speed.
You canít overclock a PM motor the way you can with an induction motor tweaking its field .

Although the larger MGR is quite capable integration into the body will be more difficult
rmay635703 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2019, 11:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 917
Default

For my purposes I want to be able to move the Insight roughly 25mph on pure electricity for a very short distance. Do you think that would be possible with the Prius induction motor?

Toyota has mentioned that the Highlander Hybrid's EV mode can go roughly 5 miles while traveling below 25mph.

I don't mind removing the spare tire to mount the electric motor, my main concern is if it can move the car to a speed anywhere near 25mph.


Also maybe you can help me understand something. While I was reading through the ecomodder post everyone mentioned how it's extremely difficult to get the 650v output to the motor and only mentioned achieving high volts by utilizing more batteries. But when I look at the Highlander Hybrid specs the battery is 288v and they have an inverter (sorry if wrong terminology) to output up to 650v AC. Wouldn't that be the route to power the MGR?
__________________
My Daily: 2000 5MT no A/C
My Project Car: 1985 Celica V6.
Sigma Projects is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-12-2019, 07:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Somewhere in Wisconsin
Posts: 515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma Projects View Post
For my purposes I want to be able to move the Insight roughly 25mph on pure electricity for a very short distance. Do you think that would be possible with the Prius induction motor?

Toyota has mentioned that the Highlander Hybrid's EV mode can go roughly 5 miles while traveling below 25mph.

I don't mind removing the spare tire to mount the electric motor, my main concern is if it can move the car to a speed anywhere near 25mph.


Also maybe you can help me understand something. While I was reading through the ecomodder post everyone mentioned how it's extremely difficult to get the 650v output to the motor and only mentioned achieving high volts by utilizing more batteries. But when I look at the Highlander Hybrid specs the battery is 288v and they have an inverter (sorry if wrong terminology) to output up to 650v AC. Wouldn't that be the route to power the MGR?
A step up inverter is a complex way of controlling a motor , the folks who run a Nissan Leaf Motor in a conversion rarely run anywhere near its rated voltage

Some on diyelectriccar are developing control boards to allow the use of the OEM inverter but things get complicated from there.

As for the highlanders EV mode it isn’t drive by the mgr but rather the primary motor up front, the mgr kicks in as needed when wheelspin is detected.

I would make a thread on diyelectriccar asking on the mgr, until someone does it for real , gets weights and other measures of the motors we won’t know the real capabilities of either

Hmm

Last edited by rmay635703; 06-12-2019 at 07:57 AM.
rmay635703 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-12-2019, 12:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 917
Default

Ah good point about the EV Mode.

At least from what was shown in the forum post you shared the RPMs the MGR was reaching with the voltages shown in the video are promising.

Ah ok, thanks for explaining about the inverter difficulties.

Physical measurements have been taken of the unit.


I guess if no one on the various EV sites have successfully utilize the MRG unit then it's probably not viable at the moment.
__________________
My Daily: 2000 5MT no A/C
My Project Car: 1985 Celica V6.
Sigma Projects is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location (Required)
Where you live
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:17 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.