the 1,2,5 sequence? - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum
 
Go Back   Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum > 1st Generation Honda Insight Forum > MPG Issues

Insightcentral.net is the premier Honda Insight Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-21-2009, 06:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
gmwnuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Marine City, MI, USA
Posts: 3
Default the 1,2,5 sequence?

Hi, I just bought a 2002 MT insight and was wondering how exactally to execute the shifting pattern with 1st 2nd and right to 5th(other than just doing it ), and what are the advantages to doing so?

Thanks!

Greg
__________________
2002 MT silver
gmwnuk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-21-2009, 09:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 2,391
Default

I never figured out any advantage to this because you need to run the engine at a higher speed in 2nd to get to a suitable speed in 5th and you end up doing one of those things, either #1 hitting 5th gear at an inefficiently low speed, or #2 running too fast for the best efficiency in 2nd gear.

If I need decent acceleration for passing or merging into a road and I reach my speed in 2nd or 3rd gear and 5th gear is a suitable engine speed for that gear would be the only time that I'll skip gears. Going from a gear that is geared for a max of 70mph at redline to the second overdrive seems like quite a jump to me.
MN Driver is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2009, 09:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Fl_Fyr_Fytr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 416
Default

I've never done that particular sequence but have many times done a 1,2,4,5 sequence with my hondas.

The Insight is geared so incredibly high that it would be very difficult to accelerate once in fifth (from second), not to mention that it would require a fierce amount of assist and no lean burn untill the stress was relieved. I see no real benefit.
__________________
Thundersyt
'02 Honda Insight MT @ 191k W/rebuilt pack (via Hybrid Battery Repair)
Corey, Calpod, & TPS mods / True lifetime average of 54.5
DVD / HD radio head unit w/500w Kenwood amp & .5 farad cap
4x Kenwood 6.5" 3-ways & Kicker 8" L7 in custom stealth box (via Expert Fabricator)
7" LCD monitor in passenger sun visor/ 35% tint/ Nitrofill @ 50psi
Fl_Fyr_Fytr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-21-2009, 10:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 7
Default

I recently purchased a 2000 Insight w/ 5 spd. The transmission is failing-- w/ 3rd unusable. (Knew it when I bought it-- price was right). So, in the meantime have been using the 1-2-4-5 sequence all the time. The car is quite drivable with that sequence under most circumstances. Doing that allows for keeping rpms under 3000 most of the time, and allows for good use of the electric assist as well. My battery is the original and its not very strong, and this pattern seems to preserve the charge in the top third of the indicator bars. Yet, it allows the assist to be used to advantage.
stevedaniel is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2009, 10:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: WA State
Posts: 103
Default

I never do the 1, 2, 5 shift but...... I often use a 1,2,4 shift in town. It really depends on the road itself. If its a level stretch of road and I will be able to keep a steady speed for a bit without having to stop at another light then I will accelerate fairly hard and fast from a stop in 1st and 2nd...then jump right to 4th at around 35mph and go right into lean burn (great for roads with a speed limit of 35-40mph). I find that I can average a higher MPG number this way. The extra fuel used to accelerate harder is offset by entering lean burn faster and being able to stay in it longer...the heavy acceleration is for a very limited distance and is easily offset by the longer lean burn run.

If you are going to have to stop again in a block for another light ect then that technique won't be beneficial. I also find that by watching upcoming lights and coasting/charging as efficiently as possible I can keep the pack charge up ( I don't downshift to save wear on the transmission, I just get as much regen as possible from the gear that I'm in and then go to idle stop from there).

Here's a shot of my FCD from yesterdays run around town...56 Deg F. outside, no cold air mods ect. 20.0 miles all in town driving using the 1,2,4 method whenever practical.



Hodakaguy
__________________
2001 Blue Insight MT
2010 KTM 530 EXC
1938 Piper J3-50

Last edited by Hodakaguy; 11-22-2009 at 08:10 AM.
Hodakaguy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2009, 11:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 2000 5MT, Buffalo NY
Posts: 728
Default

I have an IMA inhibit switch which is on most of the time. I keep the throttle at 70%, and I upshift at 3000RPM while accelerating. This results in a 1-2-5 pattern only when my cruising speed is around 39mph. Even at higher speeds, I'll skip 4th.
RobertSmalls is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-22-2009, 08:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodakaguy View Post
I never do the 1, 2, 5 shift but...... I often use a 1,2,4 shift in town. It really depends on the road itself. If its a level stretch of road and I will be able to keep a steady speed for a bit without having to stop at another light then I will accelerate fairly hard and fast from a stop in 1st and 2nd...then jump right to 4th at around 35mph and go right into lean burn (great for roads with a speed limit of 35-40mph). I find that I can average a higher MPG number this way. The extra fuel used to accelerate harder is offset by entering lean burn faster and being able to stay in it longer...the heavy acceleration is for a very limited distance and is easily offset by the longer lean burn run.

If you are going to have to stop again in a block for another light ect then that technique won't be beneficial. I also find that by watching upcoming lights and coasting/charging as efficiently as possible I can keep the pack charge up ( I don't downshift to save wear on the transmission, I just get as much regen as possible from the gear that I'm in and then go to idle stop from there).

Here's a shot of my FCD from yesterdays run around town...56 Deg F. outside, no cold air mods ect. 20.0 miles all in town driving using the 1,2,4 method whenever practical.



Hodakaguy
I agree. Depending on traffic, I either use grandma mode (light throttle, shift at 2000 rpms) or 70% throttle and 1-2-4 or 1-2-3-5 depending on my target cruising speed.

The only problem is that I'll get some net battery loss from latter method. As long as I get a highway run of 20 miles or so to pump it back up every 10 days or so, no problem, but I have occasionally entered forced recharge during those stretches when I don't leave town for an extended period.
__________________
1973 VW Thing "Pumpkin"
2000 Insight "Sleepy"
2016 Escape ...
bciesq is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-25-2009, 03:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Stonewall, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 102
Default

I typically skip 4th gear when in city traffic. My technique is to shift below 2000 RPM and as soon as the clutch is out I flick the throttle to encourage the computer to give me some assist, and then back off the throttle until just before the assist drops out (you get a feel for it). I do this through 1, 2, and 3, and then shift into 5 for cruising at the 60 km/h speed limit (37 mph).

Note: this does mean that you don't always keep up with traffic while accelerating, and you can get people trying to push you down the street for the first block or so until you get up to speed.

After a while you'll find the method that suits you and the traffic that you drive in best. The Insight is a good fuel economy instructor as it provides you with lots of direct feedback.

Good luck.
BillR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-25-2009, 03:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Essex, CT
Posts: 685
Default

I never could understand the 1,2,5 concept. I often skip 4th, or sometimes 3rd, especially if there is a downgrade to help me along, but I'm not organized enough to follow a 1,2,5 regular routine.
But using MIMA or other methods to disable assist during accelerations helps overall mpg a lot. Assist helps acceleration but increases the mpg only slightly during acceleration, but there is a larger "hit" on mpg later when the battery is regen-ing.
__________________
2006 MT
MIMA w/FAS module
various mods to driver
red1dr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2009, 09:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago 'burbs
Posts: 6
Default

I would recommend against any sequence other than 1-2-3-4-5. The transmission synchros are not going to be happy about jumping gears, particularly if you've got the engine spun up in the previous gear. The gear dogs will also get beat up by this practice. The result is exactly what stevedaniel reported in his post above. The transmission will eventually not engage particular gears and/or will violently disengage under load.

If you're intent on skipping gears to get that last bit of MPG from the car I highly recommend using a double clutch technique (clutch out and back in between shifts). That will prolong the life of the synchros and help prevent dog wear. However, it will not completely prevent the damage.
sokitset is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Tags
manual transmission, mpg, shift pattern

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location (Required)
Where you live
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:20 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.