Just got my 2000 Insight 5MT, has dead IMA battery - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum
 
Go Back   Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum > 1st Generation Honda Insight Forum > MPG Issues

Insightcentral.net is the premier Honda Insight Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-10-2012, 11:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Paradise, CA
Posts: 25
Default Just got my 2000 Insight 5MT, has dead IMA battery

Hi all,

I am wondering what is the best mileage I can expect to get with my car? I just bought the car yesterday for $2500. It is a 1 owner with 202k miles. I have already flipped the switch to off on the IMA pack and pulled the three plugs on the BCM because the 12v battery light was beginning to come on frequently and I want to keep driving the car IMA or not. I have not decided if I want to recondition the pack myself or just pull it and leave it out. It seems like a lot of time and effort to have to deal with the IMA battery at all with the cost of a grid charger and the device to charge and discharge the battery sticks unless there is a very significant gain by having it functional. I commute 130 miles a day round trip. I have a friend that commutes with me and we split the costs of gas and oil. I typically drive between 55 and 60 mph and most of the time 55 mph. I shift as early as possible and coast down the 6 or so mile hill from my home till I get to the flats. I am thinking that I will get the worst mpg on my way back up the 6 mile hill but the rest should net me good mpg because it is very flat. I am getting new Bridgestone Potenza tires for the car soon. I will probably run the tires at 60 psi, maybe 65. I really want to maximize my fuel economy as fuel is a huge monthly expense for me. Thanks in advance for any helpful advise.

Alex
jetmon135 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-11-2012, 01:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 450
Default

If your driving is mostly steady speed, not a lot of traffic or lights, probably your mileage will be the same with or without the IMA working. As you are probably aware driveability does suffer. Driving 55-60 mph you should do better than 70mpg.

Your location is listed as California. Pretty sure you're going to need that IMA working to pass inspection, no?
ackattacker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-11-2012, 07:04 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
aisbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 2,009
Default

As ackattacker stated, the IMA system isn't responsible for good fuel economy at steady-state highway speeds on flat terrain. But your fuel economy will suffer a bit on your 6-mile hill where the IMA motor would help ascend the hill thus reducing the load on the engine and where the IMA system would add charge to the battery pack descending the hill which would extend the life of your brakes.

If passing a state inspection with the IMA warning light on isn't a problem, it would probably be difficult to justify buying a BetterBattery from an economic perspective. Rebuilding your battery would be very time-consuming and would require specialized equipment and a source of good battery sticks to replace your bad ones (not easy to find). Used battery sticks don't seem to have a lot of life in them since they're becoming quite old, so rebuilding may not be worth the effort.

With RE-92's, even inflated to only the maximum sidewall pressure of 44 psi, you should be able to average 70 mpg with ease.
__________________
Aloha,
Art Isbell
Sold 16 July 2017: 2000 Insight A/C #559 with Honda security system, Genesis One MIMA+FAS and grid charger, OBDIIC&C, Rostra, Fumoto, DEFA engine block heater, Philips LED DRL's
2014 BMW i3 BEV
aisbell is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-11-2012, 07:56 AM   #4 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 6,506
Default

akatacker is probably correct about the inspections, though I don't live there, so could be wrong. You will probably need to get all the warning lights on the dash turned off before you can get through inspection.

Which lights were lit when the IMA battery was turned on? The lights begin to lite up when the battery deterriorates to about 10% of original capacity. And you will start getting "check engine" codes. These codes can be read by following the directions here:

Read the blink codes with no special equipment by following the directions here:

https://www.insightcentral.net/forums...ink-codes.html

All you need is a paper clip to jump between two pins in the OBDII plug. Let us know the codes.

Fuel economy with the Insight is highly variable depending primarily on climate, driving conditions and driving skill. You will probably start out around 70mpg, IMA battery operating, and with time and skill reach nearly 100mpg on the flat sections. Even a single stop, can drop you trip mpg by 6-8 mpg, so it is advantageous to try to smooth out any variations is traffic flow - tough to do when traffic gets dense. Learn how to detect lean burn and keep the car in that state. Incidently, I don't think you can get into lean burn with the IMA battery turned off, so you fuel economy suffers some.

At the price you paid, it would probably we worthwhile to buy the better-battery from Ron Hansen. Reconditioning the old subpacks is iffy and requires special equipment. You need to spend a bit of time and assess the condition of the car. I have one at 211,000 which is in excellent condition, but a bad condition one might not be worth the $2000 better-battery. Do a compression check on the engine before you buy the battey. Ask for instructions if you need.

You are going to need to learn to work on the car a bit yourself - nothing heavy, but the basic trouble spots like cleaning of grounds, compression checks, oil changes, etc. Folks at this site are Insight lovers and can usually help with any troubleshooting. If you get locked into taking it to a Honda dealer, you will wind up in the poor house.

Hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions until you get some basic understanding of the car, and good luck!
__________________
2000 MT Citrus(DogBite); 2000 MT Citrus LTO Conversion; 2001 MT(Aeromodded Hypermiler - 134.4MPG); 2006 MT

Last edited by jime; 04-11-2012 at 07:59 AM.
jime is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-11-2012, 10:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kelseyville, CA
Posts: 354
Default

Hybrid cars are exempt from inspection in CA.
__________________
2000 MT 146,000 miles
Bought 1/23/2010
randerson0248 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-11-2012, 12:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 469
Default

Congrats on the purchase! Drop that speed down to between 50-60 with lean burn you'll be getting 80+mpg round trip (maybe 90 one way, 70's the other depending on that hill). Do a quick calculation on your cost savings and see if the savings alone will pay of the battery. I'm guessing it'll be pretty close, and driving the car with a good battery can't be beat. Without the IMA boost that "hill" might turn into a mountain haha. Congrats again and welcome to the site.


Tim

ps i think someone else will chime in with exact knowledge on being able to lean burn with the IMA battery turned off. Without lean burn expect mid to high 60's at most. Possibly touching in the low 70's.
__________________
Insightless :'(
Sold Section:
2000 Red MT "Wendy" #448 156k miles, Monster Truck Mode
2000 Silver MT #168 130k miles Grid charger harness, CARD switch, rad block, MIMA #174, BetterBattery 83.5Lmpg
Bests trips: One way 58.2 miles-110.4 mpg
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
round trip 116.8 miles-99.5mpg Tank: 94.4mpg

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2001 Blue CVT - 203k miles 69.3Lmpg Best 56.6m-92.3 mpg Tank: 75.13mpg

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
timny1984 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-11-2012, 04:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
Lean Burn = Happiness
 
jeff652's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,155
Default

Welcome to the forum and congrats on getting such a good deal in California! I paid more than that for mine and it also had a bad IMA battery.

Lean Burn will not work as long as the IMA battery is not working. randerson0248 is right, we are smog exempt (for now), so that's not an issue. I have a couple good IMA batteries that I am selling for a very good price, a little less than a third of a BB. Your close enough that there'd be no shipping and I could help you install it (and a grid charger) so that you would be able to maximize your mileage for a long time.

Shoot me a PM if you would like more info. Thanks -Jeff
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Extending the life of your hybrid
Best Tank: 90.2MPG over 918.7 miles 010MCM/030BCM, No MIMA. Details:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2006 Dark Blue Insight. Bought/Selling/Sold/Dismantled nine silvers, three blues, and a Citrus

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jeff652 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-11-2012, 08:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Paradise, CA
Posts: 25
Default Update from yesterdays post.

Hi All,

First, thanks for all the good responses. I drove my first commute round trip in the car this morning with me in the drivers seat for the first 10 miles down the hill and my commute buddy driving the rest of the way in to our destination. He was good about keeping the mph very close to 55 on the way down. I recall that the trip down indicated about 68 mpg on the dash. The codes that were on my OBDII tester were Prior to the disconnection of the IMA Battery and unplugging the BCM last night were the typical 1447,1449, and 1164. I got a code 1648 after the BCM and IMA battery disconnection. My 12v battery was about 12.35 static and 13.5 ish when the ICE was running. I did not experience the battery icon on the dash as was occuring frequently before especially when driving at night with the lights on.

On the way home I strickly adhered to the 8,18,24,31 shift mph points. It was a little hard to get used and acceleration was pretty slow. I had to stop multiple times as I did not time the traffic lights correctly to keep moving smoothing through them. I was indicating 66 mpg for the day when I started to ascend the hill. I did my best to drive it conservatively but I was really beginning to slow the traffic down behind me when I was down to 24 mph for about a minute. By the time I got home, my mileage for the day was down to 62 mpg. In my book that is still fantastic and I am sure I have room to improve in my driving technique. I am going to take another route home that I hope has a lesser impact on the overall mpg. I personally do not think that spending the money on a better battery and a grid charger would improve my mileage enough to justify the expense. Jeff652, I may consider your offer at a later date. I have to sell my other two non hybrid cars before I get too deep on this one. By the way, the car is in very good condition with only one 3 inch seam separation on the driver seat. There is no body damage save for a quarter sized dent on one side and a paint scuff area near the right rear wheel. Everything works as far as I can tell except for the IMA battery. It does need tires and I am willing to spend the money for those.

Thanks,

Alex
jetmon135 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-11-2012, 10:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 450
Default

It does sound to me like you are not getting lean burn, but you're probably right that it's not worth the money for a new IMA battery from a strictly economic standpoint.

Back of the envelope calculation... you are getting 62mpg. With working lean-burn you may get 75mpg. 130 mile round trip, splitting the cost so 65 miles, 5 times a week, $4 a gallon, I figure you'd "save" $189 per year by replacing the battery. Since a new battery is $1800 that cost will take nearly 10 years to recoup.
ackattacker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-11-2012, 10:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 6,506
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetmon135 View Post
Hi All,

First, thanks for all the good responses. I drove my first commute round trip in the car this morning with me in the drivers seat for the first 10 miles down the hill and my commute buddy driving the rest of the way in to our destination. He was good about keeping the mph very close to 55 on the way down. I recall that the trip down indicated about 68 mpg on the dash. The codes that were on my OBDII tester were Prior to the disconnection of the IMA Battery and unplugging the BCM last night were the typical 1447,1449, and 1164. I got a code 1648 after the BCM and IMA battery disconnection. My 12v battery was about 12.35 static and 13.5 ish when the ICE was running. I did not experience the battery icon on the dash as was occuring frequently before especially when driving at night with the lights on.

On the way home I strickly adhered to the 8,18,24,31 shift mph points. It was a little hard to get used and acceleration was pretty slow. I had to stop multiple times as I did not time the traffic lights correctly to keep moving smoothing through them. I was indicating 66 mpg for the day when I started to ascend the hill. I did my best to drive it conservatively but I was really beginning to slow the traffic down behind me when I was down to 24 mph for about a minute. By the time I got home, my mileage for the day was down to 62 mpg. In my book that is still fantastic and I am sure I have room to improve in my driving technique. I am going to take another route home that I hope has a lesser impact on the overall mpg. I personally do not think that spending the money on a better battery and a grid charger would improve my mileage enough to justify the expense. Jeff652, I may consider your offer at a later date. I have to sell my other two non hybrid cars before I get too deep on this one. By the way, the car is in very good condition with only one 3 inch seam separation on the driver seat. There is no body damage save for a quarter sized dent on one side and a paint scuff area near the right rear wheel. Everything works as far as I can tell except for the IMA battery. It does need tires and I am willing to spend the money for those.

Thanks,

Alex
Sounds like you guys are getting with the program. The 8,18, 24,31 rule is for max FE under ideal conditions(i.e. not traffic obstruction and honking horns). You will have to vary sometimes on account of traffic. I find that if I'm threated by traffic I can sometime wind out rather quickly in first to get up to a reasonable speed without paying too much FE price. Without without assist you won't pay much price anyway. Since you can't see LOD it is kinda useless to talk about that, but just use about half throttle and watch the revs climb quickly to 4000. Puts you into the flow a little better.

The Bridgestone RE92 is still available through Costco here in the east, and probably in the west. They have frequent Bridgestone promotions. I have of folks finding them through Firestone stores also.

With a big hill at the end of your commute, you might want to rethink that battery. It would give you a big boost up the hill, then you could recharge it on the way down hill the next morning. Just a thought.
__________________
2000 MT Citrus(DogBite); 2000 MT Citrus LTO Conversion; 2001 MT(Aeromodded Hypermiler - 134.4MPG); 2006 MT
jime is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location (Required)
Where you live
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:35 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.