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Old 09-17-2012, 08:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Cooler Temps and MPG

This will be my second winter in my 2001 MT with about 100k miles on it. Last winter killed my MPG and I was hoping to do something about it before this coming winter.

Can someone help me with what the options are to try to keep lean burn as much as possible in Winter (West Virginia)?

Thanks
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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This will be my second winter in my 2001 MT with about 100k miles on it. Last winter killed my MPG and I was hoping to do something about it before this coming winter.

Can someone help me with what the options are to try to keep lean burn as much as possible in Winter (West Virginia)?

Thanks
One thing i run all year round except for the warmest days is a warm air intake hose to above the catalytic converter area. Not shown in that diagrammatic image but the next one is a tinfoil roasting pan formed as a shroud around the cat to help funnel the warm air. . I monitored IAT temps with a gauge. I understand from reading that 110F/44C may be the an optimum working temp from some posts here in IC.
I note though from past VW targeted 86F/30C as desired intake air temp for winter engine air heating.
I've also moved the ambient air sensor closer to engine heat from the radiator and insulcated it from the wind as well.
Some detach/break the clip a distance back of the sensor that is holding the two wires and move it directly into the engine bay.
My mileages were terrible all the same in the winter for several reasons but lean burn did seem to initiate better with the above..

[Some duct tape was found useful at bends in the 4" hose line and where it ran flush with the engine cover's edge at a later point. Depends on material used for ducting.]
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Last edited by AbCaRed00; 09-17-2012 at 11:08 AM. Reason: [tape was added for strength later]
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think I am going to try to both of these ASAP. I am already seeing an impact in the mornings with the cooler fall-like temps.

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Old 09-17-2012, 09:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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AbCaRed00,

I put in the warm air mod this morning. Will monitor performance over the next several cool mornings.

With fall temps in the mornings now, I've noticed lower mpg. After the daytime warm-up, mpg back up.

I used flexible aluminum ducting (for clothes dryer), the roasting pan you suggested (wired it to the exhaust header flange), and some aluminum tape. (didn't tape the duct to the plastic air intake yet, just slipped it over, your thoughts on that ???).

Not a good fit along right side of engine cover, my a/c coolant hp and lp lines run adjacent. Had to 'deform' the aluminum duct to get the hood to close.

Your pictoral of the install was helpful. Thanks.

..Bob
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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AbCaRed00,

I put in the warm air mod this morning. Will monitor performance over the next several cool mornings.

With fall temps in the mornings now, I've noticed lower mpg. After the daytime warm-up, mpg back up.

I used flexible aluminum ducting (for clothes dryer), the roasting pan you suggested (wired it to the exhaust header flange), and some aluminum tape. (didn't tape the duct to the plastic air intake yet, just slipped it over, your thoughts on that ???).

Not a good fit along right side of engine cover, my a/c coolant hp and lp lines run adjacent. Had to 'deform' the aluminum duct to get the hood to close.

Your pictoral of the install was helpful. Thanks.

..Bob
Can you give me a feel for how this worked out for you after a few days....if you see a signifcant change in the mornings?
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Can you give me a feel for how this worked out for you after a few days....if you see a signifcant change in the mornings?
Ya, sure will. I'm anxious to see how it pans (HA !) out. Cool mornings predicted the rest of the week.

..Bob
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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AbCaRed00,

I used flexible aluminum ducting (for clothes dryer), the roasting pan you suggested (wired it to the exhaust header flange), and some aluminum tape. (didn't tape the duct to the plastic air intake yet, just slipped it over, your thoughts on that ???.
I taped the soft dryer hose ducting to the plastic air intake on mine as the temps were better with it sealed in cold winter weather, but for hot spring days and summertime a gap with some fresh cooler air for intake would have been good on a couple of occasions. I left the end positioned over the catalytic converter 'loose' , just closed in on by the foil, which was easy to remove and reposition upwards and a bit sideways if it got too hot closed in by the foil.

fwiw: i used a few cm of the end of the bare end of the wire sticking out from the coil of the hose and bent down that wire ned to be contacting the catalytic converter's heat shield. This was to make the 4" flex hose stand off the surface of the heat shield. [Should add here, the thin silicone hose did/will melt if it is allowed to directly contact the heat shield.]

On such days where hot air intake temp was reaching 50C/122F [overly hot], all i needed to do to lessen the heat was to pull the 4" hose from the tinfoil and tip the ducting inlet upwards. That required all of a few secs and back on the road again. If there was a way to switch the air source on throttle demand that would be super, but the rudimentary system worked ok.

The hose I used was thin [thus requiring the reinforcing duct tape to prevent wear and abrasion from vibrations especially next the side cover and A/C lines and at the curve in front].My ducting was also squashed down flat/sideways a bit like a 'slinky toy' to fit the narrow space with tape applied at the edge to prevent perforations or tears.
I figured the cross sectional flattened area in the length of the 4" tube was no less than that of the the plastic intake tube in front of the engine over the exhaust runners..
I'm not sure if the extra length affects much as regards intake flow, as the first gen insight is very good in that dept; or if the tune of the pulsing that may occur in the intake system is altered. All seems well as far as I have determined.
The car is likely a small bit slower due to the increased intake air heat effectively making the engine displacement smaller, so that will help for better mpg to a point. I think sealing up the inlet to hose via tape vs. allowing access to cool air loose may work towards better economy in the very cold weather for sure. The ambient temp when the winter pic was taken showing IAT of 34C/93F was somewhere below -15C or a bit above zero F. Highway Roadspeeds can change that down quite a bit, but all sealed up it's really toasty in city traffic.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AbCaRed00 View Post
I taped the soft dryer hose ducting to the plastic air intake on mine as the temps were better with it sealed in cold winter weather, but for hot spring days and summertime a gap with some fresh cooler air for intake would have been good on a couple of occasions. I left the end positioned over the catalytic converter 'loose' , just closed in on by the foil, which was easy to remove and reposition upwards and a bit sideways if it got too hot closed in by the foil.

fwiw: i used a few cm of the end of the bare end of the wire sticking out from the coil of the hose and bent down that wire ned to be contacting the catalytic converter's heat shield. This was to make the 4" flex hose stand off the surface of the heat shield. [Should add here, the thin silicone hose did/will melt if it is allowed to directly contact the heat shield.]

On such days where hot air intake temp was reaching 50C/122F [overly hot], all i needed to do to lessen the heat was to pull the 4" hose from the tinfoil and tip the ducting inlet upwards. That required all of a few secs and back on the road again. If there was a way to switch the air source on throttle demand that would be super, but the rudimentary system worked ok.

The hose I used was thin [thus requiring the reinforcing duct tape to prevent wear and abrasion from vibrations especially next the side cover and A/C lines and at the curve in front].My ducting was also squashed down flat/sideways a bit like a 'slinky toy' to fit the narrow space with tape applied at the edge to prevent perforations or tears.
I figured the cross sectional flattened area in the length of the 4" tube was no less than that of the the plastic intake tube in front of the engine over the exhaust runners..
I'm not sure if the extra length affects much as regards intake flow, as the first gen insight is very good in that dept; or if the tune of the pulsing that may occur in the intake system is altered. All seems well as far as I have determined.
The car is likely a small bit slower due to the increased intake air heat effectively making the engine displacement smaller, so that will help for better mpg to a point. I think sealing up the inlet to hose via tape vs. allowing access to cool air loose may work towards better economy in the very cold weather for sure. The ambient temp when the winter pic was taken showing IAT of 34C/93F was somewhere below -15C or a bit above zero F. Highway Roadspeeds can change that down quite a bit, but all sealed up it's really toasty in city traffic.

I taped my metal duct to the pan, looking for max heat. Used aluminum because of concern of melting (don't need the smell of burnt plastic).

I like the idea of sealing the connection at the plastic air intake during cold weather, and loose/open for mild weather (right now it's just cool, high 30's to mid 40's F in the mornings.)

Thanks for the feedback, very useful. I will advise on performance.

..Bob
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Last edited by Mountain driver; 09-18-2012 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:58 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Can you give me a feel for how this worked out for you after a few days....if you see a signifcant change in the mornings?
Jury is still out, but leaning toward not much impact. Going to seal up the area where the ducting slips over the air intake and try some varying amounts of grill blocking.

Temps in the 40's and mpg down about 10.

..Bob
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Jury is still out, but leaning toward not much impact. Going to seal up the area where the ducting slips over the air intake and try some varying amounts of grill blocking.

Temps in the 40's and mpg down about 10.

..Bob
Thanks for the update. I was planning to work on mine in the next few days. Please let me know if you seen any improvement after sealing the intake.

Thanks
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