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Old 06-02-2015, 08:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 45mpg downhill with assist.

Yes, you read that right. It hurts.

Sometimes the engine starts to "chug" (like it's REALLY REALLY rich) and the power, uphill just vanishes, it gets like 25mpg up the hill, with about 1/3rd assist, barely able to maintain 40mph on a uphill segment. Immediately after that uphill segment, when the engine does that, the downhill segment, feels like I'm dragging a plow, as if I let off the throttle, the car feels like I slam on the brakes, and slows down VERY quickly down the hill. To maintain speed, it requires assist, making only about 45-50mpg. (this is down-hill)

And sometimes, I can go up that hill making 45mpg, at 50mph (barely slowing down) with no assist, and once I peak, the downhill on the other side gives me 150 all the way down, with regen.

I have an idea, I will post it at the end, however I have hidden it (just highlight at the bottom), as I would REALLY like to hear ideas before seeing my crazy idea, that makes perfect sense.

Upstream O2 sensor, appears fine. I don't believe this is my problem. Appears to update frequently, about a .05 volt "jitter", but looks great.

First Cat, could be clogged... but I don't think that would cause the "random"ness of the issue.

Second Cat, could be clogged... Once again, I highly doubt that would cause the "random"ness of the issue.

Downstream O2 Sensor appears to be fine. Might be a little "going out", seems to have a slight "extra" delay over the upstream O2, however I've read it only tells the engine when the Cat isn't working, so I don't think this is the issue.


Things I think it COULD be, but not what I think the problem is.
1. Valves - anything related to them, as I have not checked them (however I would think this would be a more consistent problem if this were the problem)
2. EGR Valve. (I really don't know anything about this)
3. EGR Plate. (Once again, I really have ZERO understanding of the EGR system)
4. Fuel Injectors. (I would think if these were the problem, it would be more consistent)

Thanks for your help guys. I'm totally at a loss.


HIGHLIGHT BELOW THIS LINE TO REVEAL WHAT I THINK THE PROBLEM IS, come up with an idea in your head before reading it first, because my idea is downright crazy, but makes too much sense.
************************
I think the problem is my fuel line in the "Fuel Pump Assembly" is leaking. I know it is leaking, as that is what put me on the side of the road on the way home with the car. IF the car is leaking gas back into the gas tank, it makes sense it could actually at times, get air, in the gas lines. likely micro-bubbless, assuming running the throttle hard-ish, allows these bubbles into the fuel line, and assuming there is about 5-10% of the fuel as air, if the injectors are getting air in them, they will not inject properly, and they will cause the engine to run lean. The engine running lean is causing the injectors to inject more fuel, which the request for more fuel, is in turn increasing the amount of air in the lines, causing the computer to go all crazy thinking the car is lean. The car gets so rich, the fuel is no longer has complete combustion, which compounds the issue further. When I peak the top of the hill, and start going down hill, the engine is running so poorly, when I let off the throttle, it is unable to do it's "learn burn thing" (yes I know it's a CVT, but all modern cars have a "lean burn" style mode, for going downhills, and my CVT is 100% failing to be able to do this) I think I need a new Fuel Pump Assembly, as that would solve the "half useable tank of gas" and "air in the fuel lines" (which I have no idea how I could prove one way or the other)
The only thing that seems to fix this issue, is stopping, putting the car in neutral/park, for about 1-2 minutes(which it runs fairly rough for the first 10-20 seconds). Then it's back to 100% again.
EDIT: It is starting to seem like the less fuel in the tank, the worse this issue gets, however this is a hard one to prove, given that it's almost 200 miles from "full" to bad.

EDIT2:: One thing I think I forgot to mention. The Long Term Trim, has a really bad tendency to creep up to about +20. If I stop the car for more than 30 seconds, it slams back down to about +3. It's like once ***SOMETHING*** goes wrong, the LongTermTrim, goes to hell, and once that happens, I have to stop, and let the car idle, to allow the car to correct itself. The issue is obviously not the LongTermTrim itself, but something is making the car think it's CRAZY lean... and I need to find that to solve this issue I think.

***********************************
END HIDDEN TEXT


PS: If you can't read the hidden text, due to not able to highlight, you can quote it, and read the "quoted" text.
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Old 06-02-2015, 09:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default 45mpg downhill with assist.

Do you smell fuel anywhere? A common spot for rust hole is by the passenger side firewall where fuel line is attached to the firewall and turns 90 degrees.

Didn't you mention some fuel gage issues? It could be fuel sending unit issue.

Also if your car sat for a long time, rodents could have chewed some lines.

Make sure fuel is fresh in the tank.

Check coils (especially #2) for deterioration.

Check to make sure you got correct plugs and they are torqued correctly. (Seen loose plugs before)

Not trying to send you on wild goose chase, just offering ideas that you should rule out.
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Old 06-02-2015, 09:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If you put it in neutral down hill does it still slow down?
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You should have put this thread on your original post, it takes a while to search for previous problems that you have posted before. Seems like to me it's the trans. fluid thing. It is a CVT?
Going down hill you will get a lot of REGEN and that is a huge "brake" on the engine, especially when getting off the throttle.
HTH
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Freezin4 -
1. No Fuel Smells
2. Could totally be this, this is the part I want to replace.
3. Sat for a real long time. Could easily have some chew marks on the fuel pump ***. just haven't checked yet.
4. Hard to when it runs out of gas at half a tank, but I'm driving it as much as I can.
5. Great idea. Will do when I hit my dad's shop likely over the weekend.
6. This could be a issue. I'll likely order some plugs... seeing how old their filter was... it can't hurt.
7. Crazy ideas, are EXACTLY what I'm looking for. My goose chase has ended, and I'm out of ideas. Anything is a GREAT idea right now.

Firehawk618-
yes, it does much better (not speeds up a lot, but it does slowly speed up). The engine still suffers for a few moments however until it fixes itself in about 10 seconds, then idle smooths out.

Willie -
1. Sorry for not putting it in the other one, but I thought this issue might be relevant for archival.
2. It is a CVT.
3. I don't think the CVT would create that much engine-brake downhill, even if it was having issues. Plus it's 100% linked to the "lack of power" up the hill. (there's a few hills that it does it on, and it just makes no bloody sense to me)
4. It's not the engine regen. As I mentioned, when it's right, I can go down at ~150mpg, with 3bars regen. When it's messing up, I actually have to keep the throttle on, and use *assist* to keep from slowing down... down hill. It will accelerate in neutral down this same hill.


One thing I think I forgot to mention. The Long Term Trim, has a really bad tendency to creep up to about +20. If I stop the car for more than 30 seconds, it slams back down to about +3. It's like once ***SOMETHING*** goes wrong, the LongTermTrim, goes to hell, and once that happens, I have to stop, and let the car idle, to allow the car to correct itself. The issue is obviously not the LongTermTrim itself, but something is making the car think it's CRAZY lean... and I need to find that to solve this issue I think.

I feel stupid leaving that off the first post. ((Edited into the first post))
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default 45mpg downhill with assist.

Warning! Sticker shock may occur when getting quotes for indexed Gen 1 plugs from the dealer for the first time. But you'll only need them every 100,000 miles, and you'll only need three.
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freezin4 View Post
Warning! Sticker shock may occur when getting quotes for indexed Gen 1 plugs from the dealer for the first time. But you'll only need them every 100,000 miles, and you'll only need three.
Yeah, I've already checked, they hurt. But thinking of plugs, it seems they foul under load, and it seems it takes a 'lean' moment to get them to work properly again... I still think it's the fuel pump assembly though, each trip across town is getting worse. (as the tank empties I think)
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwaad2 View Post
Yeah, I've already checked, they hurt. But thinking of plugs, it seems they foul under load, and it seems it takes a 'lean' moment to get them to work properly again... I still think it's the fuel pump assembly though, each trip across town is getting worse. (as the tank empties I think)

Fairly simple to confirm or rule this out.

A fuel pressure gauge will tell the tale.
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You might want to check for a vacuum leak on the vac. line to the FP reg.

HTH
Willie
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Old 06-03-2015, 12:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Williford View Post
You might want to check for a vacuum leak on the vac. line to the FP reg.

HTH
Willie
Adding this to my weekend check list.
Willie - Do you think this sounds like a fuel-systems issue like Freezin4 is suggesting?


A thing I have forgotten to post, is the engine code, it don't even turn the light on though. (It's there sometimes, but the light doesn't come on from it)
P1541 - (Pedal Position Sensor Double Error)

I really can't find anything on this error, and I don't see how this would cause the engine to run terribly wrong, so I haven't mentioned this, however, I'm throwing it out there.

PS: I was reading a article on "vaccum leaks" and "lean".
They are "lean" at an idle, and they get more "accurate" as the RPMs climb. eg: Long Term Trim @ idle would be +20, while at 2500 RPMs, it would be at +10... That's a sign of a vaccum leak. (EDIT: Is this logic correct? It sounds good to me.)
My car is showing close to a +0 to +3% Long Term Trim, at idle. I will test revving the engine parked to see if it changes however, I didn't try that.
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