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Old 01-01-2019, 05:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Do I have a bad BCM? please help

Hello all, My car its been giving me 3 IMA codes: 58, 66(P156, 74(P1449), which I already diagnosed using the repair manuals, by testing the BCM terminals and these are the results:

* C9 and C20: 13.1
* C20 and C7: 12.9
* C7 and C18: 13.2
* C18 and C5: 12.7
* C16 and C15: 13.1
* C15 and C14: 13
* C14 and C13: 13.1
* C13 and C12: 12.9
* C12 and C11: 13
* C11 and C10: 13.1

as I understand according to what the repair manual says to the 74 code troubleshooting:

"Is the difference between the highest and lowest voltage more than 1.2 V?
YES - Replace the battery module.
NO - Substitute a known-good BCM module, and recheck. If the
symptom/indication goes away, replace the original BCM module."

and what it says about the 66 code:

"Is each measurement about 7 V or more?
YES - Substitute a known-good BCM module, turn the battery module switch ON, and recheck. If the symptom/indication goes away, replace the original BCM module.
NO - Replace the battery module"


according to that I guess the battery is in good condition, and the BCM need to be replaced, but I need an expert who can confirm my suspects, since im new to this. Any help would be appreciated

Note: I've already grid charged and discharged the battery a couple times not a long ago, the max it always reach is 177V

My car is a 2000 insight M/T
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The manual is bunk. 7V or more is complete nonsense. Not sure what Honda was trying to convey there, but taken at face value, that criterion is stupidly incorrect.

You have a COMPLETELY dead battery. A battery with any usable charge in it should NEVER read below 14.4V per tap (resting).

You have one or more of the following:
1) one or more dead cells on each tap
2) one or more cells with excessive self-discharge ON EACH TAP (EDITED)

IMHO, it's most likely #2.

Given that you've reconditioned it, it's likely completely spent.

Does it top out at 177V because current stops flowing, or is current still flowing at 177V?
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Last edited by S Keith; 01-01-2019 at 10:22 PM. Reason: Clarify EACH TAP on #2
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S Keith View Post
The manual is bunk. 7V or more is complete nonsense. Not sure what Honda was trying to convey there, but taken at face value, that criterion is stupidly incorrect.

You have a COMPLETELY dead battery. A battery with any usable charge in it should NEVER read below 14.4V per tap (resting).

You have one or more of the following:
1) one or more dead cells on each tap
2) one or more cells with excessive self-discharge

IMHO, it's most likely #2.

Given that you've reconditioned it, it's likely completely spent.

Does it top out at 177V because current stops flowing, or is current still flowing at 177V?
Yeah it tops out at 177V, the instructions of my grid charger says that if voltage stays at X number and doesn’t reach in 4 hours the charge is complete.

Do you know any method to test the sticks, so I could swap one or 2 sticks that may went bad.
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Old 01-01-2019, 07:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Did you read the tap voltages after a charge or after a discharge?

Sam
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Old 01-01-2019, 08:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f22angel View Post
Yeah it tops out at 177V, the instructions of my grid charger says that if voltage stays at X number and doesn’t reach in 4 hours the charge is complete.

Do you know any method to test the sticks, so I could swap one or 2 sticks that may went bad.
What grid charger, and is it still reporting current flow at 177V?

How did you actually read my response and walk away with "one or 2 sticks that may went bad?"

If your voltage measurements are right, YOU HAVE AT LEAST 13 BAD STICKS, BUT IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT YOU HAVE 20 BAD STICKS.
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Old 01-01-2019, 08:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Those voltage readings look suspect, unless you measured after a deep discharge - i.e. they look fairly even, too even to have the typical problems, yet they look too low to be real unless you measured after a deep discharge... Check your meter's accuracy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by S Keith View Post
The manual is bunk. 7V or more is complete nonsense. Not sure what Honda was trying to convey there, but taken at face value, that criterion is stupidly incorrect.
7V averages out to 0.583V per cell, which is around the typical low voltage after self-discharge, a voltage that stays for a long time. Anything lower means a cell is most likely truly bad, rather than simply completely discharged.
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainsux View Post
Did you read the tap voltages after a charge or after a discharge?

Sam
The car is been sitting for about 2 weeks, prior to that I discharged and charged it 3 times, and it worked fine for about one week with no codes, but if I leave the car with the SoC full in the night In the morning when I had to use it again just with a little use of assist the SoC started to drop along with bat and brake lights on, until it reaches at least 4 bars the lights came off
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S Keith View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by f22angel View Post
Yeah it tops out at 177V, the instructions of my grid charger says that if voltage stays at X number and doesn’t reach in 4 hours the charge is complete.

Do you know any method to test the sticks, so I could swap one or 2 sticks that may went bad.
What grid charger, and is it still reporting current flow at 177V?

How did you actually read my response and walk away with "one or 2 sticks that may went bad?"

If your voltage measurements are right, YOU HAVE AT LEAST 13 BAD STICKS, BUT IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT YOU HAVE 20 BAD STICKS.
It is the maxxx volts one, idk how can I know if there’s current flow it is like 177V and 292mA

I was thinking that not a lot of cells were bad since the cars runs fine after a grid charge, but some issues start next day but no trouble codes until at least 5 of more days since last charge
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eq1 View Post
Those voltage readings look suspect, unless you measured after a deep discharge - i.e. they look fairly even, too even to have the typical problems, yet they look too low to be real unless you measured after a deep discharge... Check your meter's accuracy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by S Keith View Post
The manual is bunk. 7V or more is complete nonsense. Not sure what Honda was trying to convey there, but taken at face value, that criterion is stupidly incorrect.
7V averages out to 0.583V per cell, which is around the typical low voltage after self-discharge, a voltage that stays for a long time. Anything lower means a cell is most likely truly bad, rather than simply completely discharged.
Idk what those terminals I tested are connected to, I guess to the cells or sticks, my meter’s is accurate I think, it is brand new and digital
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f22angel View Post
It is the maxxx volts one, idk how can I know if there’s current flow it is like 177V and 292mA

I was thinking that not a lot of cells were bad since the cars runs fine after a grid charge, but some issues start next day but no trouble codes until at least 5 of more days since last charge
Your conclusion might be true if you didn't have the 10 tap voltages. Those tap voltages indicate bad sticks everywhere.

292mA means it's still flowing current, and IIRC, the peak voltage on the MV is higher than the HA unit. My concern was that you were hitting the max voltage on the charger.

Good sticks don't lose their charge after a 2 week sit. Period. This is especially true after being "reconditioned" through whole-pack charge/discharge.

I'm now 99% confident that scenario #2 is the most likely; however, I didn't clarify "every tap" in that one, i.e., you have at least 1 bad stick per tap... likely two per tap.

Can you provide a detailed account of your charge/discharge process?
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