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Old 05-02-2019, 10:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default At my witts end

I GOT MY '05 M/T INSIGHT 14 MONTHS AGO WHEN
I STARTED A NEW JOB THEY REQUIRED A LONG COMMUTE .

SINCE THEN I HAVE PUT 23.000 MILES ON IT AND CONSISTENTLY GOTTEN
OVER 60mpg . I DID PUT IN A NEW IMA BATTERY 6 MONTHS AGO

IT HAS 180,000 ON IT NOW & I HAVE BUMPED UP THE LIFETIME mpg
AVERAGE TWICE TO 56.1 .

AND THEN THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT CAME ON ....
THE "MAINTENANCE REQUIRED" LIGHT SOON ACCOMPANIED IT .

HERE IN NC IF YOU DON'T PASS INSPECTION , YOU CAN'T RENEW YOUR REGISTRATION AND YOU CAN'T PASS INSPECTION WITH A CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON .

SO I HAVE BEEN TINKERING WITH IT FOR A FEW MONTHS NOW
TRYING TO EXTINGUISH THE BLASTED LIGHTS .

THE CODES SAID THE '02 SENSOR IS THE CULPRIT .
I REPLACED THEM ONE AT A TIME USING DENSO FOR THE UPSTREAM
AND CENTER . I WOUND UP GETTING A WALKER FOR THE DOWNSTREAM .

LIGHT STILL ON .

I TOOK IT TO A LOCAL SHOP HERE IN RALEIGH WHO ADVERTISES
AND EXPERTISE IN HYBRIDS . THEY CHARGED ME $150 TO REPLACE
THE GAS CAP & SAID THE LIGHT WAS OUT BUT IT WAS STILL ON
WHEN I STARTED THE CAR .

I GOT THEM TO READ THE CODE BEFORE I LEFT AND THEY SAID IT
THAT IT WAS FOR THE DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR .

I HAVE NOW REPLACED THE DOWNSTREAM ONCE AGAIN .
CLEARED THE CODES AND THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT WAS OUT
FOR ABOUT TWO SECONDS AND ONCE AGAIN CAME BACK TO HAUNT ME .

I AM ALREADY DRIVING THE CAR ILLEGALLY . IF I CAN'T FIX THIS
I WILL HAVE TO SELL IT .

IT HAS BEEN A GREAT CAR THAT HAS BOTH SAVED & COST
ME A LOT OF MONEY . IT STARTS INSTANTLY , RUNS GREAT
GOOD HEAT & AIR AND GETS WEEKLY mpg AVERAGES IN THE 60's

I CAN'T IMAGINE IT's A BAD CAT . THE FUEL EFFICIENCY WOULD SUFFER .
ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED .
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The shop needs to warranty their work as they did not fix your problem and still charged you money


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Old 05-02-2019, 11:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If you go to most auto parts stores, they will let you borrow a code reader, or you can buy one at Harbor Freight or even Wal-Mart pretty cheap. Tell us the exact codes.

If you can make it to Frederick MD for the maintenance day on June 1, we can take a look at it.

It may be several things that are working together contributing to the problem.
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Old 05-02-2019, 11:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Blink the codes!

(IC WAS KIND ENOUGH TO DROP MY YELLING ALL CAPS TO SENTENCE CASE, WHY IT NO WORK FOR YOU, RIM? AH... NO EXCLAMATION MARK)
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Old 05-02-2019, 11:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Also, let us know the part numbers of the sensors you have installed. (So maybe it was you who bought one of the three upstream Densos that were on Amazon!)

You will read in the forums that NGK is the OEM manufacturer for the upstream sensor, but that is for the 00-early 01. For late 01 -06, it probably is Denso. I bought a Bosch but it was a repackaged Denso and not the same Denso so it didn't work.

I have an 04 and Frederick would be a good place to do A/B tests swapping several parts to isolate the problem.
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Old 05-02-2019, 11:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIMSPOKE View Post
I GOT MY '05 M/T INSIGHT 14 MONTHS AGO WHEN .............

AND THEN THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT CAME ON ....

Normally that indicates it's time to change the oil.

THE "MAINTENANCE REQUIRED" LIGHT SOON ACCOMPANIED IT .

Changing the oil is a maintenance task.

THE CODES SAID THE '02 SENSOR IS THE CULPRIT .

What gage was used to show the code? Autozone will usually read them for free.

I REPLACED THEM ONE AT A TIME USING DENSO FOR THE UPSTREAM
AND CENTER . I WOUND UP GETTING A WALKER FOR THE DOWNSTREAM .

The '01-1/2 to '06 cars have three O2 sensors. From looking at some of the illustrated parts drawings the 2nd and 3rd sensors should be changed as a pair.

LIGHT STILL ON .

I HAVE NOW REPLACED THE DOWNSTREAM ONCE AGAIN .
CLEARED THE CODES AND THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT WAS OUT
FOR ABOUT TWO SECONDS AND ONCE AGAIN CAME BACK TO HAUNT ME .

Which sensor are you calling the "downstream" (#2 or #3)?

I CAN'T IMAGINE IT's A BAD CAT . THE FUEL EFFICIENCY WOULD SUFFER .
ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED .
Have you changed the oil after the maintenance light came on?

From what I've seen, a bad cat has very little if any affect on mpg unless it clogs the exhaust system. My car had a bad cat and it really didn't change the mpg when I got a used 1st cat from a CVT that made the cat code go away.

And my "bad" cat did not throw a code when put on the parts car that my present cat came from.
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Old 05-03-2019, 11:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Ditto per ol'rowdy: mntc rqd light begins blinking around 6500 miles, and goes on steady at about 7500 miles suggesting an oil change. Easily reset per the owners manual. (dash trip buttons must be functional.)

Ditto per SKeith, blink the code(s). He lists the method in his signature. Easy diy. Here's a link to a spreadsheet by AbCaRed00 that lists almost any code the car will set.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Service light out , check engine is not

The downstream 02 sensor i installed
is a walker products # 250-24664

it says it is for a manual transmission car .
( why in the world does that matter ? )

would it make a difference to use a ngk or denso ?
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thank you for not yelling.

I don't remember all the details, but MT and CVT use different O2 sensors and there's some variation in years.

Why the difference? Because MT has lean burn. CVT does not. Probably matters.

When it comes to things like O2 sensors, coils, etc., I don't go dealer, but I don't scrape-the-bottom-of-the-barrel. I usually try to buy the OE equivalent, i.e., if Denso, Hitachi, NGK/NTK makes the OE part, I try to find that manufacturer's equivalent.

Personally, it may not matter one bit, but until you put on an OEM equivalent part, I can't rule out the replacement part is just not up to the task.

I like to use rockauto.com to help establish the OE part as they usually list it.

The Walker you mentioned is just listed as "downstream" for MT.

Rockauto lists NTK as the OE manufacturer and identifies the NTK 24429 for downstream after first cat and 24430 for downstream after second cat. The 24430 is the equivalent to the Walker you used.

Per my first reply, you need to blink the codes and get back with us. You've replace 3 O2 sensor based on:

"I GOT THEM TO READ THE CODE BEFORE I LEFT AND THEY SAID IT
THAT IT WAS FOR THE DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR . "

You have it within your power to get your own information, and blinking the codes is typically more powerful than what you get with consumer code readers.

Help us help you. We're flying blind here. As it stands, the car is trying to tell you what's wrong, but you're not listening.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Blinking codes ?

Other than power , what is the difference
between blinking codes & consumer codes ?
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