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Help CVT Diagnosis

4K views 13 replies 4 participants last post by  eddgie 
#1 ·
Hope someone here can give me some suggestions.

2004 CVT. Car was working beautifully.

A couple of weeks ago, after 5 miles on the "Free"way, got off and at the first traffic light, started to pull away after a stop. The cluch engagment felt soft, and then suddenly at about 3 or 4 MPH, the motor spun up like the clutch had dis-engaged.

From then on, it would be very chancy. Starting sometimes resulted in a more or less smooth pull away, but most of the time, it would do this and then eventually would start to pull, but I could feel that the clutch was engaging and disengaging.

Honda dealer said it was bad and that they can't get parts, but honestly I think they are lying becauase I found that the Honda eStore lists just about every part made. Sure seemed like a lie to me.

But here is the bad news.. I took it to an independent and they said they would replace it with a rebuilt, but when they did, I don't think it fixed the problem becuase then they said they had to take it out and put in a new flywheel? Even that sounded odd because as I understand it, the flywheel in the CVT is like some reproductive parts on a nun as I understand it. From what I can see it looks like it serves no real purpose other than a "Pass-Through" to the transmission input? I don't see how replacing it would fix the problem indicated. Of course they are saying that there were to seperate problems and the CVT only fixed one of those two, but I am skeptical.

I am having them put the origional transmission back in.

But what could cause this? There is a valve body that could be plugged?

Does the clutch pick with a solenid?

Any thoughts on what I should be looking for???
 
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#2 ·
Quick update.

I had called Honda USA about the fact that the dealer had told me that they could not get individual parts to repair the CVT, and then left a message with the General Manager at the dealer with an overview of what had transpired.

There was perhaps some mis-communitation on both sides, but in the end, the dealer agreed that the burden was on their end and that parts are available, and that they want me to bring the car in and they will re-diagonose and make every effort to resolve the issue to my satisfaction.

I will report on the exact nature of the fault once that is discovered so if others have the symptom they will know what the potential fix is...
 
#3 ·
Yup. The flywheel is a common failure. The splines strip. I didn't know that it would engage again once it was stripped but the shop could be correct.

Lucky you! A flywheel is relatively simple and cheap and I don't think the splines of the male side (the trans mainshaft) are affected as it seems that shaft is made of a harder metal.

Make sure they replace the rubber O-ring seal that keeps the grease from leaking out. It probably disintegrated and that caused the splines to lose the lube and strip.

See: http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...cvt-flywheel-assembly-fail-manner-before.html
 
#4 ·
Do you think the flywheel could account for the symptom I am reporting? There was no loud noise and the transmission was shifting flawlessly. No rumbling or anything else.

Then suddenly it would act like a slipping clutch.

I thought the independent transmission shop was trying to rip me off by replacing the transmission when they then came back and said the flywheel was bad too.

What would be the chances of them both going bad at the same time?

My thought was that they put in the transmission with good intentions, but when it did not fix the condition, they realized the mis-diagnosis. But they said that both parts were bad and I am struggling with that.

They were NOT going to charge me for the flywheel, but my concern was that the real problem was the flywheel to begin with and I was going to wind up paying $4700 for a transmission that I really did not need.

So, is this symptom possible to attribute entirely ot the flywheel?
 
#5 ·
Well, it might just have been the flywheel. I bought a 2003 Civic CVT where the mechanic had replaced the trans, but it still didn't work so he bailed at that point, put the old trans back, returned the salvage yard trans and I bought the car with the original trans and flywheel and with the half shafts in the trunk.

I found the problem with the flywheel and replaced that but haven't got it going yet because I have been occupied with other things. The trans had throughput because the differential turned when you turned the mainshaft so the belt wasn't broken and there were no metal bits in the pan.

look at the picture in the thread I referenced. It can fool you at a glance because the outer rim shows the castellated look of intact splines but down a bit it is smooth. It is stripped.

With a repair of a bad flywheel, as I said, make sure you replace the rubber O-ring. Honda specifies their High-Temp Urea grease in the reservoir pocket at the bottom of the flywheel splines. They even specify an amount of grease in ounces or grams. If you need exact info it's in the shop manual. I can get the Civic specs for you if you don't have the info. Probably the same trans. The Civic trans is model SCZA.
 
#6 ·
Well, the car is at the independent shop and they are putting the original transmission back in. Then it goes to the Honda dealer who I think mis-diagonosed the problem to begin with. But they are making all the right noises about wanting to make me happy now.

I will feel horrible if both the transmission and flywheel are bad and will have to go to the independent shop and beg forgiveness, but I got no codes on the transmission, and the fact that there was a still an issue after they replaced the transmission tells me that it is more likely that the flywheel was the problem all along.

But Honda missed it too if that is the case, because they too wanted to replace the transmission.

Anyway, will likely be a week before the dealer has the car and I know the final cause, but will put it here once I know.
 
#7 ·
The flywheel splines sounded favourite to me especially as you had no CVT codes.

I'm waiting for mine to fail as it gets a lot of abuse, ditto the UK CVT rally car!
 
#9 ·
I'm waiting for mine to fail as it gets a lot of abuse, ditto the UK CVT rally car!
If you rally the car why wait? Have a replacement flywheel on hand just in case then refill the grease pocket and replace the rubber seal. For anyone who has the trans already separated from the engine make sure you replace that grease and use a new O-ring. It would be a shame not to do it as the O-ring is cheap.

I think there might be an easy way to test to see if it is the flywheel. Remove starter then remove the six bolts holding the flywheel plate to the engine (don't drop them into the housing!) Put the CVT in Drive and see if the wheels want to turn. If the flywheel spins with the wheels blocked check for metal belt bits in the trans fluid. If there is nothing on the magnetic drain plug your flywheel is probably bad.
 
#8 ·
Well, no codes, but the car could sometimes move. I guess as the splines started to shear off and it got worse as I drove.

I also never heard any sounds or clunking or anything.

But never a code. I did not know how deep the transmission diagnostics went, but I thought it was odd that no codes showed up, and again, the independent shop was still going to replace the flywheel after replacing the transmission and still seeing a problem (though they said it was a different problem).

I will know next week I think. Upset that the dealer would not catch this but never got any kind of code, and when I could get the car going by very gentle acceleration, once in motion, it appeared to be shifting, so this is why I think the transmission itself was OK.

But will know next week I hope...
 
#12 ·
Good call. Was the flywheel. The dealer is now being very accommodating after telling me that they could not get parts for the transmission (incorrect) and that the transmission needed to be replaced (incorrect).

I was very disappointed in the dealer, but they are now working very closely with me to ensure I am satisfied with the outcome.

My thanks....
 
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