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CVT just went out =(

13K views 36 replies 13 participants last post by  KLR3CYL 
#1 ·
188K miles, just driving normal, about to exit from the freeway and zip, no connection as if i'm in neutral.

It didn't make much sound, but it felt as if a rubber band gave way which makes me wonder if the belt snapped/failed. I tried reading on the forums for clues but most say that the belt doesn't seem to give out. But it didn't make any noise prior or even when it happened. Just felt like it just totally let go.

I think monday it'll get torn into it, but I also read that mostly best to just buy a used low mileage transmission. Is that the consensus?
 
#2 ·
Buying a new CVT is not the consensus unless you have positively ID the CVT as the failure.
If you have no CVT error codes then it is unlikely the CVT itself has failed.

The most common failure is the splines inside the flywheel connecting the engine to the cvt input shaft.

Read up on that failure mode and replace the flywheel if necessary.
 
#4 ·
Yep. Bet it's a bad flywheel.
 
#6 ·
Yep, bet it's the splines stripped in the flywheel. There's an inspection plate on the bottom that you can remove and then see if you can turn the flywheel. If it is the splines, you may want to check to see if there is any up/down movement of the transmission shaft due to a worn bearing.

I really don't see how the grease on the shaft prevents spline failure. There shouldn't be any play between the splines on the output shaft and inside the flywheel, so all the grease should be is an aid to help for future removal. Think of it like a clutch plate and manual transmission, you don't put grease on those splines and I've never seen one fail in that manor.
 
#7 ·
I really don't see how the grease on the shaft prevents spline failure. There shouldn't be any play between the splines on the output shaft and inside the flywheel, so all the grease should be is an aid to help for future removal.
Just a theory but I can imagine the flywheel moving in and out on the output shaft a half millimeter or so between loading the engine when accelerating and unloading when you take your foot off the gas. In the absence of grease the splines in the flywheel could grind away in 100,000 miles.

Think of it like a clutch plate and manual transmission, you don't put grease on those splines
Every clutch kit I've installed included a packet of grease for just that purpose.
 
#13 ·
The tranny.
 
#17 · (Edited)
This short vid shows how it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSmv6aiWqg

My parents first car was a DAF 600, the first car with a CVT belt system although that had twin rubber 'pull' belts rather than a single metal shackled 'push' belt.
My dad is in the process of buying a Jazz(Fit) Hybrid which is technically identical to the 2nd gen Insight; returning to CVT after driving manuals for almost 50 years.
 
#18 ·
I was station in England in 1980 and actually owned a DAF. Orange color. your buddies could pick it up and carry it. Belts must have not heated up much cause it certainly didn't go fast and the acceleration took a while. Mine didn't look this good but was close

 
#20 ·
Wow, that's crazy stuff right there. So what route you going to go now? :/
 
#22 ·
If you go to service one of these its best to put a zip tie across the belt every few inches so it doesnt come apart on you once you release the tension from the pulleys.

If the belt breaks you should get a flashing D or some dtc about speed of the rotors. If the splines go no error at all.
 
#25 ·
How did it go? I think one of those belts is in my future, but I also got a little slip then grip around 3-4 grand when cold. I got both filters, new honda fluid on order, so maybe a change will fix that?

At least used gen 2 cvts are available. :evil: Looking at the rear of the engine, think they changed it so the spline issue isnt an issue.

 

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#26 ·
knowledge is power

How did it go? I think one of those belts is in my future, but I also got a little slip then grip around 3-4 grand when cold. I got both filters, new honda fluid on order, so maybe a change will fix that?

I have managed to learn a lot on this project. Here is the scoop.
you have 1 foreword gear, one reverse gear, and a start clutch which either spins or slips depending on if your stopped or need to go. The start clutch engages the power of the engine instead of the flywheel. So slipping is your start clutch. If your walking its your belt. But its easy to tell if you pull the pan off the bottom.

If you have it out I would at least replace the start clutch Steels and Clutches. If its just slipping a little at start I wouldn't worry about it and drive it till the belt breaks. If you do have to pull it out I would replace all steels and clutches.
I bought a belt from China delivered to my door for 150 and it took 4 days to get here with 1 day of delay due to weather. I don't know about quality yet but I will be finding that out. I figure there are a lot of these cvt in Europe and Asia so its worth the gamble for me. The belt is a CH057. Seems to have fit fine. I still have to get the start clutch back on, had to buy a press to get it on. The install tool is 200 bucks and the press was 100. Will be back together before Monday. Hardest thing has been keeping the dirt and crap out of the tranny while I am rebuilding it. My tools are dirty from other uses.
 
#28 ·
This is the first transmission I have even opened. I know the replacements are worth more than the car, and 3 tranny shops wouldn't touch this one. That's why I am doing it. And I have decided that it is just a RACKET! Honda selling the variator for 2k, but the belt is the same one that goes into Nissan, Honda, Suzuki, fiat and punto (whatever the heck that one is). Bosch is the only manufacturer who makes the belts that I could find. There were 3 clutch packs, the reverse was easy to get out a pain in the *** to put back in. But it is far from rocket science. It really is. Cost me 3 dollars to build a tool to get it back in. I am paying like 400 for parts including belt. I am paying 425 to have it put back in the car cause I am lazy and don't want to lay in the driveway. Like I said the worst part is trying to keep it clean and I just bought 3 more cans of carb cleaner at 3 bucks a piece. Spray it like water and wash the dirt or any grease out of it. Blow dry it with air. I have the belt back in, and the case back together just need to press the start clutch back on. Local Honda wouldn't sell me the 211.00 install tool, "that just for our mechanics we wont sell that to you." Kiss my a** and keep your special tool. The press will push it on fine, I will support the other end of the shaft and it will be all over but the crying.

Racket I say, to force you into a new car with a new car payment.
 
#29 ·
I wonder if there is another tranny you can use? I know the gen 2 shares a lot with the 09 and later fit, then you got the crz.

Id like to see if everything matches up for the crz cvt as it may have some changes since the gen 2 and Fit was made. :)

Yeah, trannys are another world to work on. At least with a manual you can work the shafts and shifter by hand to check it out and if your assembled it correctly. Wonder what you do for a cvt? :-?

Maybe you can bolt the bell housing to the engine and hook up the cooler, wires, shifter and see if the flanges turn and if you get an cels? Then if you can work the selector and get no blinking D's you can bolt up the cvcs, mountains, etc, etc, etc.
 
#31 ·
sorry for the late response, figured it be better to actually have a photo. So yea the splines on the inside wore out, my mechanic said the bearings felt fine. So just replaced the flywheel and associated seals since might as well since they have to come out.

 
#34 ·
Dead Thread revival...My CVT just did the "neutral" thing while driving yesterday. 135k miles. After reading thru this thread I'm inclined to believe it is the splines also as I have no error code. Anyone know how much that repair costs at a shop?? Registration is due in 10 days and car needs a smog check too. Trying to decide fast what to do!!
 
#35 ·
Approximately $800.00-$900.00. We have done roughly 6 of them in the past year and a half.

Scott
 
#36 ·
I do not know if it is feasible, but has anyone ever bored a CVT flywheel with worn out splines and pressed/welded a new bushing with splines (if such a part even exists)?
 
#37 ·
The answer is yes. We have a machine shop here that cuts out the center and then welds in a new one. It is $350.00. We have done at least 6 of these in about a year and a half.

List price for the new flywheel from Honda is $743.05.

Scott
 
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