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Old 10-31-2018, 07:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default LEDs Blew Fuse....

Hey!
So, I upgraded my bulbs in my 2011 EX. Started with Lasfit LC6 LED lows, then Nokya Stage 1 yellow halogen highs. I installed Lasfit T10s into the DRL slots next to high beam, everything looks great.

But then I installed another one of the T10s into the side marker, and when I switched on the running lights it popped a fuse. Lost all running lights (even tails). Took me awhile to troubleshoot the problem back to a blown 10A fuse simply labeled 'Small Light'. Installed halogen side marker back in and it's fine now.

Anybody have issues installing all LEDs in the front housing T10s? I am paranoid to try again now, especially after reading others frying their taillights when upgrading to LED side markers. Not sure if the fact that I had just one LED plugged in made the fuse blow? Any help is appreciated.

-Josh
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just bump that fuse up to 20 and it should cover it,,
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:35 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda hybrid442 View Post
Just bump that fuse up to 20 and it should cover it,,
Ignore this advise.

LED lamps have a high in rush of current when they first light. It might be possible to use a fuse the right size that is slow to blow, allowing an in rush but still will blow if the continuous load exceeds 10 amps. Using a fuse that has a higher rating that the circuit is designed for could allow the wires or sockets to melt and burn. The oem lamps are not halogen, just regular incandescent. They are not meant to be piercingly bright, just locate the corner to other drivers. If you Google "2010-2014 Honda Insight side marker lamps" there are some leds rated for direct replacement. The Lasfit T10s are pretty thin in the spec department.
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Old 11-01-2018, 03:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks egads. Considered going to a 15A but thought better of it. I thought LEDs were suppose to draw less power than the stock ones? Guess I'm confused as to why 2 sets of small LEDs would be too much for it to handle.
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Old 11-01-2018, 04:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think the science of inrush current in LED lamps is beyond both of us. One has to have had electrical engineering training to fully understand it. All I know is it effects all lamps, even incandescent ones. But the momentary current on led ones is much higher, even though the continuous load is much smaller.

The stock filament lamps in the side markers are 4.5 watts at 14 volts so I'm not sure one saves much by changing them. Brightness? That's just annoying to others. You don't see them. Even brand new high tech cars only have leds were they do some good.
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have hids ,in my civic ,they keep blowing the fuse,,I have bump up the fuse and never seen any signs of melt down,,am not buying your theory,,
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I am an electrician by trade. Circuits are fused to the maximum load they are designed for. This is usually based on the wire size. Amperage is: watts voltage = amps Because 12 volts is so low the amps climb very fast. I have seen the damage that can happen when a low voltage circuit is shorted. I would never suggest, on an internet message board, over sizing a fuse. This is not theory, it's known science. What you do with your own vehicle is your prerogative. I did suggest a slow blow fuse that might allow for a momentary overload situation. That might get high current in rush LEDs lit and still properly protect the wiring. Keep in mind that we are talking about a hybrid with thousands of dollars worth of electronics that one could fry. Hardly worth it for a side marker light you can't even see when you are driving.
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egads View Post
Ignore this advise.

LED lamps have a high in rush of current when they first light. It might be possible to use a fuse the right size that is slow to blow, allowing an in rush but still will blow if the continuous load exceeds 10 amps.
With all due respect, LEDs do NOT have any higher than the normal running current when starting to light.

Wire a LED bulb and a dropping resistor in series with the resistor going to ground.

Connect a dual trace oscilloscope as follows;
1. Connect the ground lead to the resistor ground lead
2. Connect one scope probe to the positive lead of the diode
3. Connect the other scope probe to the negative lead of the diode.

Now apply a positive low frequency square wave to the circuit and compare the two square wave traces. You will see that the negative diode connected trace follows the input square wave trace. The only difference you will see is the voltage drop across the LED.

The LED and resistor have no capacitive or inductive loading of the input signal and therefore can't cause any change in the voltage rise (causing current changes and/or phase shift).

Now if you were to connect a high value capacitor across the resistance you would see an inrush of current as the capacitor charges. And it might be enough current to blow the LED too.

A normal incandescent light bub does have a start up change in current but that is due to the bulb filament changing resistance as it heats up. The resistance is much lower when cold compared to being lit for a few seconds.

I suspect Farmerjosh just overload the 10A fuse with the final installation of more lighting. Try measuring the current without the last addition across the blown fuse to see what the current is with all the other changes are drawing.
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Didn't mean to start a fight guys.

I definitely understand why fuses are there and why it's a bad idea to upsize. This isn't theory, as stated. It's science.

It seems like it might be more hassle than it's worth at the moment. I will probably leave the side markers stock, since it seems I'm maxed out there apparently.

Now I have a few extra sets of t10s, maybe I will try them in the license plate lights, rear cargo, and glove box?
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Gee, there sure are a lot of technical papers on LED in rush current issues for it not to exist.
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