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Old 03-11-2019, 09:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Play-by-play, a story of oil rings

I've had my Insight for about six months now. Picked it up with just under 50,000 miles. Had heard the piston rings were prone to trouble, knew of "Service Bulletin 16-101," so "how bad could it be?"

I wanted to make this thread to tell the story of my experience getting this checked and hopefully taken care of by my local dealership.

Changed oil at 49,700 miles, and 51,000 miles, the car started throwing errors:
Quote:
----Permanent Trouble Codes Scan Report---- 1 Permanent Trouble Codes Trouble Codes:
1. P0303
Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected

----Antilock Braking System Codes Scan Report---- 1 Antilock Braking System Trouble Codes:
1. 83-01
ECM/TCM Failure
The ABS fault comes at the same time, and only, when the misfire code appears.

Didn't expect it to be real as I didn't feel any difference day-to-day, so I pulled the front plug for cylinder 3. Turns out all the front plugs (didn't pull the rears) and piston tops look terrible.

It's also a quart low on oil.

Today, March 11, I showed my information to a service writer. He knew I was aware of the service bulletin, and he was able to find it. He also said, given the condition of the plugs, not to replace them.

Also, given the symptom and documentation, perhaps we can skip the oil consumption test!

Received a call a few hours later saying they have verified my documented claims, and have ordered the piston rings. Only the piston rings.

Said he'll know more tomorrow, when the do a bit more teardown.

Attached: all four plugs, and a view through the spark plug tube into one of the cylinders. They're all about the same.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Front plugs, forum.jpg (83.1 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Cyl forum.jpg (81.4 KB, 7 views)
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Last edited by Kirk; 03-11-2019 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Have you or him read this:

https://honda.oemdtc.com/372/warrant...-honda-insight
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MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301,000 miles
Another MaxIMA Battery, on 6/25/17 @ 399,252 miles
Use: 438,000 mi. @ 58.2 LMPG.



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Old 03-11-2019, 11:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Williford View Post
Yeah, had a printed copy of that bulletin on his desk with the rest of my data. I conveniently left it on the passenger seat when I dropped the car off.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Good Boy. Good luck.
Documentation and pictures are the rule.
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01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1-(01/2003)@65K miles. RIP 334K
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301,000 miles
Another MaxIMA Battery, on 6/25/17 @ 399,252 miles
Use: 438,000 mi. @ 58.2 LMPG.



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Old 03-13-2019, 02:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Just heard they're done with the car. Took less than two days. Going to pick it up after work.

I don't have the documentation, and it's difficult to get details out of the service writer, but it appears they only replaced the piston rings as part failures.

Not the pistons, not the short block.

Other replacements mentioned were the oil, oil filter, oil pan gasket, "other fluids," and all eight spark plugs.

No price was mentioned, and the only thing I signed was the "diagnostic" quote of ~$130 to get started. Was implied that was a formality, and may not be charged. Haven't paid anything yet.

Will update with more details when I have them.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm assuming that the block was OK and you caught it early enough that a replacement wasnt necessary ... at the very least however a good cleanup hone of the cylinders should have been done ... absent that, the new rings might not seat correctly and could lead to oil blowby in the future ... I'd ask about that just to make sure if its not already noted on the service write up ... you dont want to go through this whole thing again bc they chose the path of least resistance ... best
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
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We should wait till he gets back to us to voice our opinions. He probably works day shift so no response till after 5 PM Ca. time.
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01 MT "Little Red Rocket"
The first "TURBOCHARGED" Hybrid, Insight G1-(01/2003)@65K miles. RIP 334K
MaxIMA Battery (Serial #2), on 8/25/12 @ 301,000 miles
Another MaxIMA Battery, on 6/25/17 @ 399,252 miles
Use: 438,000 mi. @ 58.2 LMPG.



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Old 03-13-2019, 10:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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[Edit]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbesq View Post
...at the very least however a good cleanup hone of the cylinders should have been done...
Agreed.


Alright, we're done. No new pistons, but admittedly, the bulletin we reference is two years old. Perhaps it's been updated.

I got over 50MPG over a three hour drive just a couple weeks ago, so I wonder if this all came on suddenly. Sacramento is flat, but my trip was mountainous, so maybe vacuum from engine braking was related, I don't know. Anyway, if the failure was so sudden, perhaps the damage was minor.

Anyway, my documentation cites Operation 1111DV was completed, and all items from Page 2 were replaced, except "Piston Kit (contains 4 pistons, 4 pins, and 4 ring packs.), Part 06131-RBJ-305"

Quote:
Verified check engine light on, diagnosis found code P0303 Misfire Cylinder #3. Spark plug oil fowled (sic). Performed S/B 16-101, replaced all piston rings, necessary gaskets, all spark plugs, oil, filter, coolant. Perform valve adjustment, clear code and road test.
I'll include a scan of the work order for reference. There was no charge for any of this work.
I'll try to scope the cylinders again before driving it too far to see if they cleaned up the pistons before reinstallation.
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File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2019-03-13 at 7.26.53 PM.jpg (158.7 KB, 6 views)
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Former Hondas '13 Fit EV, '11 CR-Z EX, '97 del Sol VTEC, '93 del Sol Si, '13 TSX Wagon

Last edited by Kirk; 03-13-2019 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Spot checked plug and piston 4 just to document the current condition.
The new plugs look good (why wouldn't they?), and they cleaned off the piston really well.

Hopefully we're good for a long, long time now.
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File Type: jpeg IMG_7925.jpeg (93.2 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_7927.jpg (98.9 KB, 1 views)
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Wife took the car to work for two days now. A few minutes ago, she reported it was rough on startup, and is "jerky" during autostop.

Dash is a Christmas tree again, with multiple warnings and lights regarding the braking and emissions systems. Will do a scan and update later.
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