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Old 10-08-2015, 10:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What causes an engine to consume oil

From Consumer Reports for the Honda cars listed

"Honda has found that certain versions of the four-cylinder 2008 to 2011 Accord coupe and sedan and the 2010 to 2011 CR-V SUV may begin to experience higher than normal oil consumption if they have regularly been revved hard with a cold engine using low-quality gas. These conditions can lead to carbon deposits on the piston rings, which can eventually reduce the rings’ effectiveness and allow oil to seep past."
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Old 10-09-2015, 08:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Low quality gas...

Assuming it's a similar problem to the 2012+ Insights that might explain why we've had zero reports of problems from Europe where we have a higher minimum standard for fuel than the USA.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Low quality gas...

Assuming it's a similar problem to the 2012+ Insights that might explain why we've had zero reports of problems from Europe where we have a higher minimum standard for fuel than the USA.
Sorry. This statement is bunk. If fuel "quality" were an issue, wouldn't this sort of failure run rampant in the U.S?

Could you please cite a source that shows 1) U.S. fuel "quality" is significantly lower than Eur and 2) how "low quality" fuel causes oil burning?

To answer the question, it's generally associated with the manufacturing processes and materials associated with piston ring manufacture and cylinder surface preparation.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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To answer the question, it's generally associated with the manufacturing processes and materials associated with piston ring manufacture and cylinder surface preparation.
Yeah, I was about to say something similar, without the "b" word. I agree with your alternative explanation of ring sealing. It all sounds very much like a tortured construct on Honda's part to deny some warranty claims.

First, we have VW-gate, and now we may see Honda-gate. Or perhaps, Honda is influenced by VW-gate. They certainly aren't handling it as gracefully as VW.

Makes me glad I own an older car with a proven ring/cylinder setup, though batteries are a worry.
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Old 10-09-2015, 11:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm looking for a definitive source, but:

US fuel in most places is 10% ethanol.

US fuel has very low detergent requirements.

If a US pump says 87 Octane, you may be getting 83 since 87 = (MON + RON) / 2

US cars for years are detuned vs Euro cars. Why? Perhaps the fuel.

If no one in the UK is burning 1 qt / 1000 miles, why is that? Fuel is a possible answer.
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Old 10-09-2015, 11:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by S Keith View Post
Sorry. This statement is bunk. If fuel "quality" were an issue, wouldn't this sort of failure run rampant in the U.S?

Could you please cite a source that shows 1) U.S. fuel "quality" is significantly lower than Eur and 2) how "low quality" fuel causes oil burning?

To answer the question, it's generally associated with the manufacturing processes and materials associated with piston ring manufacture and cylinder surface preparation.
BTW - For 2012 Insights, it's pretty much rampant.

Honda has been playing around with low friction pistons for years and having oil consumption problems.

The "fix" has been to put the older design pistons back in!!!!!

I'm HOPING using better gas and not flooring the engine till warm is a "fix" too.
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Old 10-09-2015, 12:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'm looking for a definitive source, but:

US fuel in most places is 10% ethanol.

US fuel has very low detergent requirements.

If a US pump says 87 Octane, you may be getting 83 since 87 = (MON + RON) / 2

US cars for years are detuned vs Euro cars. Why? Perhaps the fuel.

If no one in the UK is burning 1 qt / 1000 miles, why is that? Fuel is a possible answer.
Ethanol is not an impurity or a reducer of "quality". It has some undesirable qualities and exists in fuel more for political reasons than practical ones. How does this contribute to oil consumption?

US fuel brands distinguish themselves with different detergent blends. I occasionally run fuel injector cleaner through a tank of gas. I have never perceived a before/after difference. How does this contribute to oil consumption?

Your comparison of octane ratings is as useful as a comparison of our gallons, and your assertion is completely false. They are different measurement methods. U.S. cars specify octane requirements calculated with the same method as the octane reported on pumps. If a U.S. pump says 87, it's RON 87, not (R+M)/2. Period. How does this contribute to oil consumption?

Yes, U.S. engines are de-tuned vs. EUR counterparts to address the lower octane of U.S. fuel. How does this contribute to oil consumption?

Your final statement has ZERO credibility. You have a general bias that you're applying to a specific. If the general bias is true, it should be generally true.

If U.S. "low quality" gas is contributing to 2012 Insight oil consumption, then why isn't "low quality" gas contributing to oil consumption of multiple U.S. models to a comparable degree?

I have owned 17 U.S. spec cars burning the cheapest U.S. gas I can find at any given time. These have ranged from Ford 460cu-in V8s down to Insight 1.0L with Honda, Chevy, Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Toyotas in between. Never had an oil consumption problem.

You have a misplaced bias that U.S. fuel is "low quality," and you are extrapolating that bias to explain a phenomenon. It is different than EUR spec fuel and in some ways inferior in some parameters, but again, it is not "low quality". I think it's safe to say that if 24% of the world's cars are running on low quality gas, and it contributed to oil consumption, there would be a LOT of oil consumption across a lot of models from different manufacturers.

IF U.S. fuel is contributing to rampant oil consumption in a particular model while the vast majority of other models/makes are NOT experiencing rampant oil consumption, what is the more likely cause? The gas or the design/manufacturing process.

You just presented information that Honda has mucked about with things and reverted to old designs... yet fuel is the problem?

Steve
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Old 10-09-2015, 01:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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...low-quality gas. These conditions can lead to carbon deposits on the piston rings, which can eventually reduce the rings’ effectiveness and allow oil to seep past.

Try and keep up, Steve
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Old 10-09-2015, 01:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Again, what is low-quality gas?

Let's not be selective. "Revved hard with a cold engine and low-quality gas." I guess no one in other makes and models rev engines hard with a cold engine and low quality gas.

The assertion is that the U.S. has "low quality" gas and that's the likely cause. I have yet to see evidence presented that supports that assertion.

What you're reading is an explanation of a design flaw without admitting fault. If the claim is true, than why are only select model drivers engaging in this behavior with low-quality gas? The issue is the car, not the driver or fuel.
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Old 10-09-2015, 04:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Lets start with what is high quality fuel and go from there.

Top Tier Gasoline
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