100k Club

henry8744 · Dec 31, 2003

I now have 100k miles on my 2001 Insight. I purchased the car in Feb 2001. Thus far the problems I have experienced are:

1) Ticking /tapping in cold engine(dealer suggested replacing engine at 91K). I just turned the radio up a notch until the engine gets warm and every things seems fine thus far. Considering going to higher wt oil 5-30w synthetic

2) Low beam lights went out at 94K.

3) Battery recals occuring about twice a week( 300-400miles of driving)

Good Points

1) Still getting 60mpg+
2) not burning oil
3) tires lasted 90K
4) no break downs ( knock on wood)
5) still nice ride quality
6) still fun to drive
7) car finish still looks like new(although it only gets a bath about once a month or two)
8) good in snow up to 4 inches
9) clutch still feels good

Rick · Dec 31, 2003

Congrats. Have you had the valves adjusted? That is probalby the ticking.

michaelrodents · Jan 1, 2004

high km

We have 285,000km.
Problems concerning spark plug replacements. Any one else have the plugs done yet. We are on second cat converter. Suspect incorrect plug installation.
Looking for advise.
We had the first replace under good will warranty as we are long past extended warranty plan.

Rick · Jan 1, 2004

You pretty much have to use Honda spark plugs. Each cylinder has an individual optimized gap so they sell 4 different plugs, A, B, C and D. This is stamped on the head and also at the end of each spark plug. Also proper torque on the plugs is supposedly important as well.

http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclope ... plugs.html

Will M · Jan 5, 2004

It's not that the gap is optimized. It's the DIRECTION that the curved piece of metal points when the spark plug is screwed in tight makes a difference in the way that the gasses swirl in the cyllinder. The A, B, C, and D plugs are identical, except that the metal piece that bends around to form the gap is oriented differently in relation to the threads.

That's why the torque is important. Overtorque or undertorque and a properly indexed plug won't point in the right direction.

The car also apparently listens for valve tap and makes decisions about the fuel/air mix to try to fix this when it can. You can either use better gasoline or just keep turning up the radio.

dfiore · Jan 31, 2004

100,000+ mile club

I'm at 128,000 on my 2000 Insight. I just replaced my cadilytic converter. $1,200 installed. I had the ECU replaced while still under warranty. There is a recall for the 2000s. I've also had my plugs replaced and two 12v batteries. They last about 50000 miles if you stop alot (florida).

I still would not drive anything else - at least until the IMAS comes out.

henry8744 · Jan 31, 2004

Cat Converter replacement

For those of you who had your converters replaced, what problem/symptoms did you experience to convince you to make this repair. My dealer is suggesting that I replace the converter because the check engine light came on @106,000 miles. The car is running fine other wise. The qouted price for replacement is about $1300.

Thanks

Insightful Trekker · Jan 31, 2004

Re: Cat Converter replacement

henry8744 said:
For those of you who had your converters replaced, what problem/symptoms did you experience to convince you to make this repair.

<snip>

Thanks

The PCM will store a code of P0420 - CAT below efficiency.

The "problem" with ignoring the MIL is that without pulling the code you can't be 100% sure that another code is not present. Some of which give early warning of impending secondary damage. ($$$)

So your cold engine "knock" is still there. And you have suffered no failure in relation to it? Referencing your Oct. 03 post.

So your experiencing a "true" recal and not simply a forced charge? And the headlights on trick is of no benefit?

Thanks for your trouble of a reply

)

See:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 3e17e1e648

In relation to spark plugs:

Will M is correct.

The Insight spark plugs are roughly indexed and will have a negative performance, economy and emissions effect if not correctly replaced. Unlike a racing engine who's spark plugs are typically indexed to the nearest couple of minutes in relation to a clock face, the Insight doesn't require this precision. Torque is more critical for potential damage to the threads and the future ability to remove them.

dfiore · Jan 31, 2004

reason for replacing cady

Being so far out of ext warranty, they charged my $70 to put the car on the machine when my check engine light came on. It gave the cadilytic converter code. Also, I was having a drastic power loss, not only from "safe-mode" but I noticed that if I drove the car in only 4th gear forcing more air through, the light would go off after awhile, probably satisfying the O2 sensors. $1300 installed is a good price. I replaced it last weekend and so far so good.

henry8744 · Feb 1, 2004

Cat Converter replacement

Thanks for the feedback Trekker and Difiore.

Yes I still have the ticking/tapping when the engine is cold. I noticed this at about 94K but I believe it was making this sound much earlier but I thought it was the the valves. I have driven over 10K and the situation has not changed. I still get a tapping/ticking when the engine is cold and after the temp gauge gets to two bars, the noise goes away completely.

As for recals they are now coming at about 500 miles of driving?

Low beams were fixed by repalcing a switch rather than the wiring harness as suggested by the dealer(this is why I question the dealers suggesting about replacing converter).

As for the engine light indicator, the dealer did clear the light and it has not come on again alhough he still says the converter should be replaced.

Question for difiore. Given that you have 128K are you experiencing the tapping/ticking noise when your engine is cold?

Thanks

Insightful Trekker · Feb 1, 2004

Re: Cat Converter replacement

henry8744 said:
Thanks for the feedback Trekker and Difiore.

<snip>

As for recals they are now coming at about 500 miles of driving?

Low beams were fixed by repalcing a switch rather than the wiring harness as suggested by the dealer(this is why I question the dealers suggesting about replacing converter).

As for the engine light indicator, the dealer did clear the light and it has not come on again alhough he still says the converter should be replaced.

<snip>

Thanks

Maybe I am failing to read between your lines but, in regard to your recals are they _true_ recals? Or simply a more fragile SoC and or more frequent forced charging? Are you aware of the increased hidden charge with headlights on? And if so does it have a beneficial effect?

In regard to your CAT failure, As you must be aware since your reading this computer systems can "glitch" for many different reasons (you use one to access this group).

The 100% correct procedure is to record the code and clear it. Unless it returns in a reasonable amount of time if very well may only have been a glitch. But your dealer has the odds with them given the specific code, the miles on your car, and that glitches while not unusual are not common.

A P0420 occurs when the secondary O2 sensor "wakes up" under specific engine parameters indicating that the CAT is no longer "scrubbing" the exhaust. Technically stated the ratio of cross counts between the primary and secondary O2 sensors reaches a specific value for specified duration and engine on time. CATs most commonly fail by degree and as you approach the end of service life you see an increasing frequency of CAT codes. In the early stages it may be weeks between code events so you do have some time to plan for the repair.

HTH!

dfiore · Feb 2, 2004

Yes it ticks

But I believe that is just normal engine oil behavior.Just because we have the coolest cars on the road doesn't mean the oil will instantly be in the valves when you start it. Give it a few minutes to warm up. That's engines for ya.

Dan Fiore

Insightful Trekker · Feb 3, 2004

Re: Yes it ticks

dfiore said:
But I believe that is just normal engine oil behavior.Just because we have the coolest cars on the road doesn't mean the oil will instantly be in the valves when you start it. Give it a few minutes to warm up. That's engines for ya.

Dan Fiore

FYI:

I wouldn't be "normal" IF it were related to lack of oil as in a delayed time factor for the oil to completely pressurize the system.

It has been around in Hondas since the 1985 Accord model, when Honda along with several other Japanese manufacturers changed the length of the piston skirt. The piston "rattles" in the bore until it reaches its operating temperature. By virtue of their minimized pistons which reduces internal friction and increased potential MPG the two Honda models most prone to this noise was the CRX HF and now the Insight.

You may be thinking of engines with HLA's (Hydraulic lash adjusters, or simply hydraulic lifters) This type of design is prone to excess valve lash as one or more lifter(s) fails to hold oil pressure. With a warm up time for a "clog" type failure, the oil thins increasing flow past the clog and pumps up the lifter. The Insight doesn't have this type of lifter.

Warming the engine in general for more than several seconds simply wastes gas.

William · Feb 5, 2004

Questions for you 100k club members...what oil have you been running ; synthetic, natural, 0W-20 or heavier weight? OEM filter or aftermarket?
_____
Bill

henry8744 · Feb 12, 2004

Oil type

I have continued to follow Honda's recomendation of 0-20W supplied by the dealer. I also have been using dealer supplied filters. I am considering going to a higher weight 5W-20W Mobile 1 to compensate for engine wear.

henry8744 · Feb 12, 2004

Cat Converter Replacement

Had my Cat Converter replaced @ 107K. Total cost $1397. The dealer said he gave me a break on cost because the converter list for $1999.00. ( ..you know these guys don't stand a chance at heaven...) I have not noticed any particular increase in milage or performance since the replacement.

I guess my next big event will be the dreaded battery replacement.

I am going to stick with since I love this car so much

b1shmu63 · Feb 12, 2004

What about trying 0W30 synthetic? Any oil guru out there?

Insightful Trekker · Feb 12, 2004

Re: Cat Converter Replacement

henry8744 said:
Had my Cat Converter replaced @ 107K. Total cost $1397. The dealer said he gave me a break on cost because the converter list for $1999.00. ( ..you know these guys don't stand a chance at heaven...) I have not noticed any particular increase in milage or performance since the replacement.

I guess my next big event will be the dreaded battery replacement.

I am going to stick with since I love this car so much

Wel,l I guess I'll give up asking questions on the subject of your battery recals <friendly nudge> <g>

brettzu · Feb 12, 2004

Rick said:
You pretty much have to use Honda spark plugs. Each cylinder has an individual optimized gap so they sell 4 different plugs, A, B, C and D. This is stamped on the head and also at the end of each spark plug. Also proper torque on the plugs is supposedly important as well.

http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclope ... plugs.html

Wouldn't it just be A, B, and C for the 3 cylinder engine?

Rick · Feb 12, 2004

No, there's 4 different plugs, indexed differently. You will only need 3 total, but it could be any combination of A's, B's, C's or D's.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/aut ... ITION+COIL

They show 4 different plugs. So essentially there's 64 (4^3 right?) different sprak plug possibilities for any given Insight.

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